bipolar

Trevor:                    Hi there. I’m Dr. Trevor Cates. Welcome to The Spa Dr. Podcast. Mental health challenges such as anxiety, depression, bipolar disorder, eating disorders impact people all around us, whether it’s you that is struggling or someone you know.

Today’s podcast is about addressing the root cause behind mental health issues. My guest is Dr. Chris Bjorndal, and she completed her doctorate in naturopathic medicine from the Canadian College of Naturopathic Medicine in 2005. She is one of the only licensed naturopathic doctors in Canada who is considered an authority in the treatment of mental illnesses such as depression, anxiety, bipolar disorders, eating disorders, and ADD, ADHD.

Dr. Chris has helped many patients navigate through labels and stigma towards mental, emotional, physical, and spiritual well-being. Having overcome her own challenges in the area of mental health, Dr. Chris helps show others how to overcome barriers in life and achieve their full potential. She has completed three books on mental health as well as a 10-week course and an in-person retreat.

In this interview, we talk about identifying the root causes behind mental health challenges and how to address them. We also discuss when medications may or not be necessary and specific nutrients and dietary changes that will help, whether or not you’re on medication or not. We even talk about how skin is connected and can be an early warning sign or root causes that need to be addressed. Please enjoy this interview with Dr. Chris.

Dr. Chris, it’s so great to have you on my podcast.

Christina:              Thank you so much for having me.

Trevor:                    Absolutely. Let’s start off with your story. I know you’ve got a story of what led you to your focus right now of what you’re focusing on in your practice.

Christina:              Yeah, sure. Basically, I focus on mental health in my practice, and I came to that through my own journey and struggles with my mental health, which started in my teenage years with an eating disorder, and then … I was an overachiever, so I continued that behavior into university. At some point though, I ended up, found myself in a state of depression, and I was suicidal and was riddled by anxiety, so I ended up going to the doctor as most people do, and I got put on antidepressants, and six months after that I ended up having a full-blown delusional psychotic episode and was hospitalized, and then given the label bipolar disorder type one.

Then I continued on and graduated from university. I was the valedictorian, and I was in commerce at the time, so I ended up working the corporate world. I just continued that overachieving behavior until I was, well, basically, I ended up having a suicidal attempt in 1994. That left me in a coma with kidney failure on dialysis waiting for a kidney transplant. I look at that now as my spiritual crisis, and that was the turning point for me to take a look at myself and to look at my health. I realized, after reading a book called A Return to Love by Marianne Williamson, that I didn’t love myself. I didn’t like the diagnosis that I had been given. By that time, I was reporting to a CEO so I continued this overachieving behavior. Looking back now I realize that I think most likely, my adrenal glands were suffering, but nobody was looking at that. Everyone was just focusing on psychotropic medications and that the neurotransmitter piece of the puzzle, not the stress piece of the puzzle.

I eventually made a career change after I did go see a nutritionally-oriented psychiatrist who started me on nutrients and supplements to help support my mental health. I ended up making a career change to go back to become a naturopathic doctor because I just, I wasn’t happy doing what I was doing, and I really, I realized that there’s many, many people struggling with their mental health, and many people walk the same path that I walked, which was that pharmaceutical path, which I’m not against that, but I do feel that naturopathic medicine is a wonderful approach to supporting your health, and it’s a holistic approach.

The interesting thing I just wanted to mention as well is when I went to naturopathic school, we had to analyze our diets, and this was when I was in second year, and at that time, I was still deficient in an essential amino acid, which was tryptophan. I had also been an athlete, so I was also deficient in B-12 and iron. What people have to understand is in order to support your mental health, you really need these nutritional building blocks in place. What shocked me was not one doctor ever asked me what I was eating. Not even the doctor that I went to see. He supported me to nutrients, but I still didn’t crack that underlying dietary piece of the puzzle.

That’s the short version of the story, and that’s how I’ve ended up here. Just finished writing a book called Beyond the Label: 10 Steps to Improve Your Mental Health with Naturopathic Medicine.

Trevor:                    That’s so fantastic. I love speaking with other naturopathic physicians because we speak the same language of looking for the root causes behind people’s health issues. As you know, my focus is more on skin and looking at what are the root causes behind that, but really, when address our root causes, you can help not only the skin, but also mental health and a number of different health issues. Using this approach of finding the root cause is really going to help people’s health on a number of different levels, and the sooner the people do this, the better, but it’s never too late to do it. I mean, you and I have our stories and our journeys of finding this different path. That’s why I love doing the podcast to educate more people so more people can discover this early on and address things like nutritional deficiencies or dietary changes that need to happen earlier, but again, it’s never too late. Haven’t you found that?

Christina:              Never too late. As long as your heart is beating and your lungs are breathing, it’s never too late.

Trevor:                    [crosstalk 00:07:09]-

Christina:              But I want to share with you, actually, something really interesting that I think you’ll love. When I … I didn’t make this a connection until about eight years ago when I was 42. I had been on tetracycline for a year when I was 14 to treat acne, and it was after that, the year after that that the eating disorder started. When I was researching this book, I came across research that supports … I mean, and as you know, there’s a huge gut-brain connection, and so, but that piece of the puzzle, that didn’t dawn on me, and so that just highlights the importance of taking a case and getting a full history. I wasn’t comfortable in my skin at all. I mean, I had acne, and then that just got worse when I had started all the pharmaceutical medications. It was horrific.

My skin, it didn’t really clear up until I cleaned up my diet and I think really managed the hormones and the stress and the environment piece. I mean, there’s so many aspects that go into not only supporting your mental health but that the skin piece, which is, it’s just, everything’s connected. I just thought that that, the acne was really the first sign for me that my system was out of balance.

Trevor:                    Yes, and a lot of times, it is. A lot of times, skin is one of the first things that people see, and that’s the body’s giving you a sign that something’s out of balance. A lot of times, it gets ignored and suppressed. Things like tetracycline, antibiotics, steroids, those are used to help suppress it. While, like you said, medications aren’t all bad but we need to be really careful of when we prescribe them to patients, or … For those of you out there that are patients, when it’s recommended, ask questions. This is really necessary right now. It this the only option for me? Are there other things I should try first, or is it an urgent situation where, yes, I have to take this medication right now-

Christina:              That’s right.

Trevor:                    … because a lot of times, we can do something else first, and that’s what we’re going to be talking about today is you’ve found that there are different aspects of health that are really important to address, and so let’s start delving into that. What are some of these other things that we can be doing and looking for?

Christina:              What I explain is there’s four aspects to you. Basically, you have the physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual, and often, our medical system is just focused on that physical piece. If that’s what we’re going to focus on, then you’re going to, I feel you will miss 75% of the puzzle.

From the approach that I take with respect to that physical piece is there’s three macro systems within you. You have your neurotransmitters, your neuroendocrine or hormonal system, and your organs of detoxification. All of those systems, those macro systems are working together. You don’t have silos within your body where things are separate. The neurotransmitters affect the hormones, the hormones affect the organs that detoxificate and vice versa. The way that we want to support those three macro systems is the foundation of health is diet, sleep, exercise, and then managing stress. That’s the foundation.

The next level that I think is really important when it comes to mental health is working on your thoughts, your emotions, how you behave and react in the world, your environment from three perspectives. Number one, the quality of the air, food, and water. Oftentimes with depression and anxiety, it’s considered a deficiency picture, that you’re not making enough of serotonin or whatever the neurotransmitter may be, but perhaps it’s not a deficiency problem. Perhaps it’s a bindage or blocking problem, which is where this environmental piece comes into play.

The other idea around the environment is the concept of epigenetics. For myself, this question “why, why me, why is this happening to me” was one that I never really got a satisfactory answer to. The answer I got was, “Well, it’s genetic.” Now, I’m adopted, which is one of the reasons why I had this overachieving tendency because I had a core belief that I wasn’t wanted, so I operated in the world in a certain way. These core beliefs, we all have them, and they can serve us, for sure, but they can also be harmful to a certain extent, so we have to look at these beliefs and question them.

This belief that the medical community was saying to me that it’s genetic, I challenged that because I didn’t have the benefit of the genes to verify the truth of that. I subscribe more to this concept of epigenetics, which means genes load the gun, but lifestyle pulls the trigger. Again, it’s what turns the gene on and off based on the environmental influences.

The third concept with the environment is the idea of neuroplasticity, which is based on, outlined in a book by a Canadian psychologist named Norman Doidge, and the book is called The Brain That Changes Itself. Basically, there’s nothing fixed about you. You can change and you can create new neural pathways in the brain. That’s the environmental piece.

Then the last steps are spirituality, and then wrapping everything up in love and compassion for yourself. Fundamentally these are the 10 steps that I have had to take to overcome, and I’m going to say cure depression, anxiety, bumelia, social anxiety, as well as the harsh label that I never really liked, bipolar disorder type one.

You can get far with diet, sleep, and exercise. You can get really far with that, but I really think that when we look at the rest of the picture, it’s also really important. I have additional training in five types of counseling, and so that’s what in incorporate in my practice with patients.

Trevor:                    I think that you’ve touched on some really great points, and I think that genetics is oftentimes used as, “Well, you’re just stuck with these genes. They were just passed on from your family,” and it’s so exciting to see the research, more and more research coming out about how we can change our genetic expression, so I love that you’re talking about this, and I’d love to have you share more about epigenetics and what exactly can shift that, what are some of the most important things that you’ve found, and do you do genetic testing or any of those sorts of things on your patients?

Christina:              Yeah, I did. I was doing 23 and Me genetic testing for a period of time, and I actually did it on myself as well, and nothing came up. There was nothing there that pointed to bipolar disorder type one for myself. I feel that this epigenetic influence is really important. There’s lots of studies where they’ve taken identical twins at birth who have the same genetic makeup, and they have different disease states as they grow into adulthood, and you wouldn’t expect that if was all about the genes. There is a lot of research that supports this idea, and I think when you say to somebody, “It’s genetic,” for myself, that made me feel like I was a victim, like there’s nothing, like basically what you’re saying to me is there’s nothing I can do except take this medication.

For me, that just didn’t sit right, really, to the essence of my being. I really didn’t feel that that was right. Now, I’m not saying that there is not a genetic piece. There can be. For example, the whole reason that my parents adopted me was that my dad has, his father has Huntington’s chorea, or passed away from Huntington’s chorea, which is a genetic disease, but the interesting is, he was one of four, he has four siblings, he’s one of four. Two of them got Huntington’s and two of them didn’t. It would be interesting to look further into this epigenetic idea to see, what was the environmentalist determinants that had one person express it and the other person not express it.

I think for me, the book that I’ve read about epigenetics is Biology of Belief by Bruce Lipton, and so if people are interested in this idea, that would be a good reference for them or to search Bruce Lipton. He’s got lots of lectures.

I really think that the, basically, the chemical environment, the quality of the air, food, and water, the nurturing environment that you’re raised in, these all play a big role in what is going to light up a gene or what’s not going to light up a gene.

Trevor:                    That makes a lot of sense. I know you’re talking about bipolar disorder, and for people who aren’t familiar with this, can you explain a little bit about the diagnosis of bipolar and what it is. It’s often considered a really challenging mental health issue to treat, and there are actually some practitioners who won’t see people with bipolar disorder, so maybe you can just talk about that a little bit just so people understand. Of course, somebody is listening and watching that has bipolar disorder, they probably have a better understanding of this, but for people that who don’t, if you could explain a little bit.

Christina:              There’s a few different types of bipolar disorder, and the term is, I think, a bit overused in this last decade I’ve noticed. Basically, there’s two types, type one and type two. Type one is where you actually have a psychotic manic delusion episode. You are … It’s very difficult to describe that stage, but wrapping up to the full-blown state of psychosis, the person can come across as extremely confident. They are very loquacious. They talk non-stop. You have a, very hard to get a word in edgewise. They’ve got tons of energy. They might spend … A lot of people get into financial difficulty because they spend quite freely. They have grandiosity of ideas. They’re starting businesses. They’re in that hypomanic state. It’s quite a mesmerizing state to be in, quite an attractive, energetic state that people are often really, can get really caught up in, but then you flip into psychosis, which is very difficult to describe. I do describe it in quite detail in my book, but basically, you have delusions, you see things that aren’t there.

If anybody’s ever watched A Beautiful Mind, which is a movie that came out about John Nash. He was the professor, I can’t remember where he was a professor, at some Ivy League school, mathematics professor, and he had schizophrenia. The psychosis is psychosis, and it really only occurs in schizophrenia and bipolar disorder. It can occur in Huntington’s chorea as well.

Type two bipolar disorder is they just have that hypomanic stage. They never swing into mania where they have this full-on psychotic episode. That’s the difference with that. The polarity, so bipolar, so you swing up, and you swing down, and that’s into depression, and you … In my case, I have, I’ve spent, I had two manic episodes quite quickly, but every time I had one, I was on psychotropic medication. I always questioned whether it was the medication that was pushing me over the edge or whether it was just, I would get there naturally.

Then I had a decade of depression where I had nothing, no manic episodes, and then I did have a couple. I had three more. The common thing in every manic episode for myself has been stress, a lot of stress. My clinician that I went to see, his name is Dr. Abram Hoffer, he had proposed a theory. It’s called the adrenochrome hypothesis of psychosis, and his theory, which has not been proven, and I would love to prove it somehow one day and, but I need a lab, and I need to go back and do a PhD or something, but he proposed this idea that in some people, they cannot break down adrenaline. An intermediary byproduct of the breakdown process of adrenaline is called adrenochrome, and what it does in some people, if there’s too much because of a stress, you basically flood the system, and then you saturate the brain with adrenochrome, and psychosis happens.

I really think that that is the, I really think that that’s what happens. That’s what’s happened to me. The key for me to remaining free from mania over these last 10 years has been managing my stress and my sleep and my diet. Well, all those steps that I just talked about. All the 10 steps has really been the key, but listen, I will, I do what it takes to get the sleep that I need, and that, to me, is super important. I mean, just, I think any mother can relate to lack of sleep and how hard that is on the system. The more that you can learn to manage all of these pieces that I’m talking about, it will … We’ll have to wait and see if I still remain free from this, but I have to say another big piece for me was I used to live in fear of getting sick, and I used to really … It wasn’t until I learned to love and accept this aspect that it no longer had a hold of me, if that makes sense.

Trevor:                    Yeah.

Christina:              Yeah, so.

Trevor:                    It’s a process, right?

Christina:              Yeah.

Trevor:                    For people that are struggling with depression or bipolar disorder, other mental health issues, anxiety, what do you suggest for them as a place to start?

Christina:              I … Well, a place to start is making that call and going to see a naturopathic doctor, first and foremost, if you don’t already have a naturopathic doctor on your team. You probably, most people have a medical doctor already, and if you’ve got mental health struggles, then you have a psychiatrist, but I would start by making that call, and then you need to really take a look at these foundational principles.

The diet, are you supporting yourself nutritionally to make the neurotransmitters you need to make. With depression and anxiety, the two … The main neurotransmitters are serotonin, GABA, norepinephrine, epinephrine, dopamine, and glutamate, and there’s acetylcholine as well, but with depression and anxiety, it’s usually serotonin and then GABA, which are the inhibitory transmitters that need to be supported. First and foremost, you need to know are you making these? Do you have the nutritional building blocks? Not only the nutritional building blocks, which come from essential amino acids, but do you have the nutritional co-factors to make the conversion that these amino acids that have to get converted in the body? That was the start where I started.

Trevor:                    Explain what the nutritional co-factors are.

Christina:              Basically, for serotonin, it starts with tryptophan, and then it converts to 5-HTP, but you need magnesium, vitamin C, B-6 and zinc to make that first step conversion, then 5-HTP goes to serotonin, and you need B-5 and zinc and iron to make that conversion step as well as the other ones. Magnesium is also important there. Vitamin C, which I think I just mentioned, that gets you to serotonin, and then the next step, serotonin goes on to make melatonin.

What you want to understand is that initial amino acid, that essential amino acid tryptophan, there’s just no way you can make it unless you get it from your diet. Maybe in the next upgrade of the human being when we do an upgrade, you know how we get upgraded iPhones, maybe we’ll get an upgraded human being and we’ll actually make tryptophan on our own, but right now, we don’t have a way to do so.

Trevor:                    Where do you get tryptophan in a diet?

Christina:              Basically, protein, and that was my challenge as well. I was a vegetarian, and I was a carbatarian, basically. I had a terrible diet. Just terrible. Absolutely awful. The first time I went to see a naturopath, I had to cut out, this in 1996, I had to cut out wheat, dairy, sugar, eggs, tomatoes, chocolate. I thought, “Well, what’s left to eat?” I didn’t even know there was another grain other than wheat. That’s how … I was a commerce student. I didn’t know anything about nutrition.

What we want to understand is that there are vegetarian sources of tryptophan, so cashews, oatmeal, avocado, peanuts, I guess if you’re willing to eat cottage cheese. There are vegetarian sources, but you have to make sure you’re getting enough. That’s the key.

Then you want to understand as well about tryptophan that the priority in the body for tryptophan is not to make serotonin. The priority is for it so make niacin because niacin is used in every cell of the body to make ATP in it. We have, in ourselves, we have something called mitochondria that produce ATP. That’s the energy currency that we need. It’s more important from a priority system in a body to keep your heart beating and your lungs breathing than it is for you to feel good from a neurotransmitter perspective. You want to be making sure that you’re getting enough niacin from your diet or from your supplements so that the tryptophan doesn’t have to be converted to that. It can then go on to make serotonin.

The other problem with tryptophan is if a person is under a lot of stress, and I will argue that I was under a lot of stress up until I was probably 40, tryptophan can get [inaudible 00:26:53] to down another pathway in the body called the kynurenic pathway to make quinolinic acid, which results in more depression.

Now, there is a test that you can do for that, and I value that test over doing 23 and, doing genetic testing.

Trevor:                    What test is that?

Christina:              That’s an organic acids test that you can do, and it looks at inflammatory markers, nutritional deficiencies, this kynurenic pathway, dopamine as well. There’s different labs that you can do it through. Great Plains is one that you can do that through.

Trevor:                    So-

Christina:              Because that’s really important to know.

Trevor:                    Tryptophan-

Christina:              Go head.

Trevor:                    You mentioned non-meat sources. Did you mention meat sources, I mean, because, I mean, I think that I just, non-vegetarian sources. Did you mention that? I’m not sure if you-

Christina:              No, I didn’t. No, I just said meat. Everybody knows that feeling after your Thanksgiving turkey, right? Tryptophan gets blamed for that. Yeah, turkey. Basically, turkey, beef, salmon, tuna, chicken, those are your … Pretty much any meat source is going to, will have tryptophan.

Trevor:                    I love that you’re talking about these nutrients and where you can get them from the diet, and also, if we need them, we can get them as supplements additionally because a lot of the conventional approach might be to address serotonin, but it’s with the medication, and it’s not addressing the nutrients that you need for these conversions that you’re talking about. I mean, I just feel like it’s so important for us to be getting these nutrients. I want … I would love for you to touch on some of the medications, the impact that they have. You mentioned you’re not opposed to medications, so when are medications okay to use and when should we just really focus on more of a natural approach?

Christina:              The way I monitor my patients is I’ll start off with a depression monitoring form and an anxiety monitoring form. Most people come to me when they’re depressed or anxious. Not very many people come to me when they’re in a hypomanic state because they’re actually feeling quite well when they’re in a hypomanic state. Usually, people are depressed, so I assess their level of depression, and based on that, if you are in a certain, if you’re too far down the rabbit hole, I will suggest you start with an antidepressant. Now, nobody wants to hear that when they come to see a naturopathic doctor, and I view them as, take them for the minimum length of time. [crosstalk 00:29:38]-

Trevor:                    You cut out for a second. You said your goal is?

Christina:              Is to get people to get better.

Trevor:                    Yes.

Christina:              To get people better, and so if they need to go on an antidepressant initially to do so, then that’s what we need to do, but my preference is minimum dose for maximum benefit for the shortest duration of time. Now, one thing that I think is really important for people to understand is that I was on and off psychotropic meds for a long time, and every time I went off an antidepressant, and usually I went off of it because of the side effects, and I started to feel better, so I didn’t think I needed it anymore.

I would end up in that pit of depression again, and the reason that I was able to come off of them was only when I built in that nutritional piece because that’s when my body was getting the precursors that it needed to form serotonin, and then I was able to take away the, at that time, I was taking Prozac, which a selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor medication. I was able to come off of that as well as Ativan. At one point, I was taking four psychotropic meds at once.

People have to really understand that you may stumble if you don’t build in this nutritional piece because from a root cause, you haven’t changed anything. When you take an antidepressant, you’re not really, and you don’t do anything to change the underlying environment as I mentioned from the 10 steps with your diet, sleep, or managing your stress or starting to exercise when you may end up as I did, always in that pit of depression again.

The important point to understand about these medications, the most common class it is used is the SSRI class, but that’s starting halfway down the pathway of it starting at that serotonin point in the pathway, and it’s not starting at the beginning, which is with tryptophan. Now, I don’t usually prescribe tryptophan because as I mention, it can go be [inaudible 00:31:46] to quinolinic acid, which we don’t want, so I usually would start with 5-HTP.

Now, and I know different people have different opinions on that, but my view is most … Unless you’re not stressed. A lot of people are stressed, and if your stress is at a zero out of ten, then you may be be all right with tryptophan, but if it’s not, you want to be careful with prescribing tryptophan, I feel. Use tryptophan, get your tryptophan from the diet, but don’t over supplement with it is my suggestion. Then use medications if you’re [inaudible 00:32:26] suicidal. It’s difficult to ask a person who’s in that state to … I mean, I’ve been there more times than I wish to talk about, and I can tell you this. Asking me to exercise when all I want to do is lie in bed all day and contemplate the fact that I, hopefully, I won’t wake up in the morning is just really hard to do when you’re that far down.

That’s where community and support and having a network is really important, but so I just want people to know that are listening, that are watching that there’s been days when the only thing I’ve accomplished in a day when I was depressed is moving from my bed to the door, putting my shoes on, going outside. That, sometimes it’s taken me up to eight hours just to do that, but I can tell you this. Never once did I come back feeling worse than when I went out. It’s just really important. Some of these simple things, and another point I’ll just make really quickly on that is I read somewhere that exercise is the most underutilized prescription for depression and anxiety, and pharmaceuticals is the most over utilized, but I get it. It’s really hard to ask people to get moving but that’s why you need to enlist support and help and dig deep, dig really deep.

Trevor:                    I’m really glad that you’re talking about this because it’s, a lot of times, it seems easier said than done, and the fact that you’ve been through this and you really understand what it’s like to be at the bottom and should not. Like you said, the last thing you want to do is go to the gym if you’re feeling depressed, but just getting outdoors and moving your body, just moving a little bit, getting some sunlight, getting in nature, getting around some other people that you know are positive influence for you, things like that can just seem so simple, but it can save a person’s life.

Christina:              Yes. Yeah. Actually, in fact, I can tell you that did save my life in 2009. I had a, unfortunately, I had a suicide attempt, and my friend, she knew I was depressed, but I, of course, I shut down. I don’t … The last … Again, we don’t reach out. We’re not going to … Asking a depressed person to call for help is like asking for a blind person to see. I mean, you’re just physically are incapable of … It’s just really difficult for us.

Anyways, my friend Jen, she asked me to play tennis. Something seemingly simple, but look what that got me. It got me outside, got me fresh air, got me vitamin D, got me friendship, community, movement, and it stimulated my appetite because I don’t eat. You can go either way with depression. You can eat too much, or you can not eat at all.

In fact, my, I went to, I remember one time, during the same time, I was going to church, and the pastor said to me, pulled me aside, and he asked me, he said, “Chris, do you have anorexia?” and I said, “No, it’s called depression,” because I had lost so much weight. That’s another thing that you can, as somebody who may be a caregiver or have a friend that they’re concerned about, if you notice visible weight loss, it could be a sign that somebody’s depressed because we don’t nourish ourselves because we don’t want to be here.

Trevor:                    That’s a really great point. Can you touch on a few other things because I’m sure there are people that are listening, watching that have people in their life. Maybe they’re not struggling with depression, anxiety, or some of these other issues, but they have people in their life that might be or, I mean, it’s so common, and a lot times, people hide it or different behaviors can be confused for just being challenging when actually someone’s really struggling. Do you have any recommendations for people who might have loved ones in their lives?

Christina:              Yeah, it’s funny. One in four people is, struggles with their mental health in some way or shape or form, so that’s a lot of people. I think the most important thing is that sense of community and that somebody cares. You may not, you know what, you may not understand it, but you need to … Like I used to want everybody to get it, to really get this, but they don’t need to get it. They just need to stand by and love, and so making a call, inviting them for tea, going for a walk.

I remember this very first dive into depression that I had back in university, I didn’t know what was going on with me because I didn’t know, I had no way to express it but my friends who were more knowledgeable than me recognized something was wrong. Two of them in particular, one would just take, she took me, we would go to the, I went to the University of British Columbia. We would go to the Japanese Gardens, and I couldn’t even walk there myself. She had to hold my hand and guide me, and I didn’t say anything because I had nothing to say, but she just sat with me, and … Ah, now, so now I’m going to get emotional, but it was so touching that, because she took time, because everybody’s busy, and she just was with me, and she didn’t care that I couldn’t carry a conversation, that I just didn’t feel that I was worthy of being there, but she just took the time. I think that’s just really important.

The other friend, she was so concerned about me that she made that initial appointment at the student health services for me. She went herself and asked, “What do I do? I have a friend who is, are clearly not doing well, and I’m worried about her.” The advice she was given was make an appointment for me, and so she did, and I went. She took a big risk because she told me later on because she was worried that, that’s a big … She felt that I might get, who knows, I might get upset, that she was interfering, or who … I mean, I was just grateful that somebody was offering help.

I think what people need to do is recognize that this happens to people, and you may understand it, but I think if you can offer a helping hand, and you may have to be persistent. We might not answer the phone. We might not answer the door. We probably won’t answer the text, but you have to be persistent.

There’s this silent epidemic, I think, going on. I was speaking at a conference with Dr. James Greenblatt who’s an integrative psychiatrist in the United States, I think in the New York area, I think. Connecticut, maybe? He said by the year 2030, a person is going to commit suicide every second, globally. In my mind, that’s a quite a high rate. I know that there’s a buzz of activity when perhaps a movie star or a musician or somebody famous unfortunately takes their own life, but this is happening, I think, far too high rates, and even more so amongst this younger generation, this teenage group.

I feel, for myself, it’s no longer acceptable to sit in the sidelines, stuck in stigma and shame around the experiences that I’ve had, and I want to offer a voice to our profession as well that we’re just not mentioned, a lot of the times, and our profession has lots to offer to help with this.

Trevor:                    Yeah, naturopathic physicians have the unique ability to, we get training in pharmacology. We can, in licensed states, prescribe medication, but also, we have this basic understanding, like the root cause and supplementing the body with diet, nutrients, herbs, and doing those sorts of things together, and we play well with others, we-

Christina:              Yeah, that’s right. We want to be part of the team. We’re team players.

Trevor:                    Right, we [inaudible 00:40:54], I mean, I’m speaking for the majority of naturopathic physicians anyway. I like being part of the health team, and we’re not opposed that because I think we all realize that there’s not one answer, one person for everybody, so it’s-

Christina:              That’s right.

Trevor:                    Well, I really, Dr. Chris I really appreciate your information today, and I really appreciate you talking about medications because it seems that a lot of times, doctors are either quick to prescribe antidepressant or medications for mental health, or on the other extreme, some people are so opposed to them that they say, “You shouldn’t take them at all,” and I think it’s nice to hear an approach where somebody is taking that you can do both, you can, there is a place for the medications, but there’s so much more that we can do to support the body either before having, hopefully, not having to go on those medications, but if you do have to go on the medications, how to support your body during that process with nutrients and diet and the lifestyle things.

Then also, when the time comes to go off those medications, working with a naturopathic physician or somebody that’s trained to help you ween off while supporting the body at the same time because these medications are only meant to be a temporary fix, and that is, when they’re created and designed, they’re designed to only be a temporary solution to help people survive, really, and to get through the really rough times, but we’re not supposed to stay on these medications a long time. So many people, do you know the stats on how many people are on the medications?

Christina:              I don’t have that stat, but I … I would hazard a guess, but it’s pretty high. Pretty high. I think, I just want to mention just really quickly. I know that we have wrap up, but just this hormonal piece is so important. For teenage boys and girls, it’s the hormonal picture and the adrenal glands and stress really have … It’s a stressful time in a young adolescent’s life when they’re graduating from school and going to university and trying to figure it out. I’m just working on a blog called Nowhere is it Written, but you have to have it all figured out by the time you’re 21.5 years old.

I went back to high school when I was 33 to get the science prerequisites to go on to medical school, so I started over, and I’m just fine. I think it’s important that we pay attention to this hormonal piece, and then, again, for women, especially at menopause, which is where I’m, I’m 50 now, so at some point menopause is going to happen. I think a lot of, I hear this time and time again. They go to their doctor, and they get put on an antidepressant, but it’s from a root cause, it’s not, it’s your hormones, so pay attention to that. Really important.

Trevor:                    Absolutely. I’m really glad you brought that up, and I mean, we could just keep going on and on about it-

Christina:              Yeah, you’re right.

Trevor:                    … [crosstalk 00:44:02] have to have you back on again, but-

Christina:              Thank you so much.

Trevor:                    … [crosstalk 00:44:05] get more information in your book. Tell people about where they can get your book. It’s out now, right?

Christina:              It’s out now, yes. I just secured a US distributor for, into bookstores, but right now, it’s just online, so Amazon, Barnes & Noble. In Canada, Chapters and Indigo and Amazon.ca. It’s in Amazon as well in the UK and Australia and Japan, Germany. That’s where it is, and so it’s called Beyond the Label: 10 Steps to Improve Your Mental Health with Naturopathic Medicine. I’ll show you there. Can you see it? Do I have it upside down? Nope.

Trevor:                    Perfect. All right. Great.

Christina:              If people just want the diet piece, I’ll just mention that. There’s The Essential Diet: Eating for Mental Health, or if there’s clinicians watching, that’s something that’s, it’s a great tool to use in your clinic, so just get-

Trevor:                    Excellent.

Christina:              … in touch.

Trevor:                    All right, excellent, and we’ll also put a link up to your website so people can find out more about you.

Christina:              [crosstalk 00:45:06].

Trevor:                    Thanks again, Dr. Chris. I really appreciate you coming on and sharing that information today.

Christina:              Thank you so much.

Trevor:                    I hope you enjoyed this interview today with Dr. Chris. To learn more about her and her new book, go to thespadr.com. Go to the podcast page with her interview, and we’ll have all the information and links for you there. While you’re there, I invite you to join The Spa Dr. community so you don’t miss any of our upcoming shows and information. You can also go to iTunes and subscribe there.

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