diy

Trevor:                    Hi there. I’m Dr. Trevor Cates. Welcome to The Spa Dr. Podcast. Today we’re busting skincare myths. My guest is Rachael Pontillo. She’s the best selling author of the book, Love Your Skin, Love Yourself. She’s a board certified, international health coach, licensed esthetician, and natural skincare formulator and educator. She’s the President and Co-founder of the Nutritional Aesthetics Alliance, and creator of the online course, Create Your Skincare.

On today’s podcast, we’re breaking down facts from myths around skincare, do it yourself DIY, as well as other popular skincare products and practices. You may recognize Rachael because she’s been on my podcast before. I’m excited to have her back on to share additional information with you. So, please enjoy this interview with Rachael Pontillo.

Rachael, it’s so great to have you on the podcast.

Rachael:                 It’s such a pleasure to be back. Thank you so much.

Trevor:                    Yeah. I know you’ve been on before, but I wanted to have you back, because it’s been awhile, and we’ve got some updates and exciting things going on. Just as a reminder for everybody, because you have been on before, but we talked about this a bit before, but you’re a holistic esthetician. You have more of a holistic mindset, which is not the typical thing. So, explain to everybody how you’re different than maybe a traditional esthetician.

Rachael:                 It’s interesting because the world of holistic aesthetics, just like the world of holistic health, or holistic medicine, it has a lot of different definitions, and when we’re thinking about green beauty or holistic, there’s obviously different shades of green. The way I personally define holistic aesthetics and holistic skincare is really working on the skin from the inside out, with positive diet and lifestyle and mindset changes. And from the outside in, with noninvasive and all natural skincare products and treatments, and home care regimes.

What I have found in the earlier days in my practice when I was just thinking about holistic aesthetics more as just the natural products and the treatments that are not zapping and poking people, you’re still working on the skin kind of from an allopathic … Which is symptom related. You see something and you do what you can to fix it. But, that’s not doing anything really to address the cause, unless it’s something where the cause itself is actually topical. Which with skin, you know that, that’s rarely the case. It’s almost always something internal.

It wasn’t until I went to the Holistic Nutrition School and got my health coach certification and started doing more with coaching and learning more about diet and nutrition, and different causes of skin issues … I know that’s your expertise. It wasn’t until I started learning about that, that I realized, oh my goodness. We really have to approach the skin with this really broad perspective. It’s so different for each person. It doesn’t matter whether you appear to have the same symptoms, or even if you’re related, lifestyle changes, and diet, and stress, and emotional things can completely change how a regimen is going to react from one person to the next. It’s not only just holistic in terms of the diet, lifestyle, mindset, and topical stuff. It’s also got that bio individual factor in there, looking at, okay, what is this person’s skin behaving like on a day to day basis? How does it react to certain things?

I have a very personalized approach in my practice where I actually custom formulate for people. I design treatments for people, and that all gets adjusted. It gets adjusted every time I have a consultation with someone, or I see someone and something changes. We adjust everything. It’s not just, here’s the protocol for this person with this skin condition, because that doesn’t help if the cause of that skin condition is different, or if that person … Something in that person’s lifestyle is interfering with that protocol’s ability to be success for them. Holistic really means looking at the whole person, and kind of matching them up.

Trevor:                    Yeah. Okay. Perfect. Now, we have a very similar approach to skin and the holistic mindset of that, so that’s great. Thank you for clarifying that. Definitely not always the approach you’re going to get from an esthetician, but you have a lot more training than just esthetician training. You have the health coach aspect, that training as well. That’s great.

One of the things I want to dig in today is some of the beauty myths out there, and skincare myths, so we can bust through these, because there’s so much marketing hype, and money spent on products and procedures. It can get really expensive. I want us to talk through some of these myths together. One of them has to do with oils and the skin. Let’s talk about that. I think you know my take on oils to the skin, but what do you feel about oils and skincare?

Rachael:                 It’s a big topic. Oils themselves, there’s kind of a misconception of what they are, because I think that the commercial skincare industry has kind of given them a bad name, over the years. Because the oils that have been used in my own products that are synthetically based, have been typically petrochemicals like mineral oil, or white petrolatum, or other industrial grade lubricants, really. They’re not anything that brings nutrients into the skin. There is a lot of concern that applying oil to the skin is going to suffocate the skin, or create an occlusive barrier that is going to not allow for any ingredient penetration, or respiration, or even detoxification. It’s just creates this barrier, which sometimes you want a barrier. If you’re healing from something or if you’re trying to keep moisture in the skin. But, if it’s not also delivering nutrients, and it’s potentially leaving trapped stuff that should be coming out, in, it’s really not going to be any benefit to the skin.

There’s this idea that oils clog the pores. That if you have oily skin, you should not be using oil on your face. That’s something that I subscribed to for a longtime. Even in my aesthetics training, I really didn’t learn about oils until a little bit later in my training when I started working with an Ayurvedic line and studying under an Ayurvedic doctor. And, they’re very big into oils in Ayurveda, all over the body, which is fabulous. I always acne and oily skin, so I was always like, oh, no, no, no. Oil equals grease, or dirt, and that’s just not the case.

There are so many incredibly nourishing oils that we use for the skin that are plant-based, such as jojoba oil, even some forms of coconut oil, rose hip seed oil is one of my favorite. I know that argon oil is really trendy these days still, hemp seed oil. I mean there’s hundreds and hundreds. Each of them is pressed, or expressed, or expelled from a seed, or a nut, or pit of a plant. Sometimes the flesh, sometimes the entire seed pods, but really most seed oils, most plant oils are from the reproductive part of the plant. They’re pressed, usually cold pressed. What that does is, just like when you’re eating sprouted vegetables, it has all of that new life energy, that creation energy, that generating energy about it. That goes into the oils, energetically. These are composed of essential fatty acids. They all have a different essential fatty acid profile. Different levels of saturation, meaning [inaudible 00:08:31] That’s kind of the layman’s term. How thick or thin, or how heavy or dry and oil is. I’m sure you’ve heard of the term, dry oils, where you put it on and it seems to evaporate right away, or absorb right away.

Then we have oils that are much heavier and more solid, like a shea butter, or a coconut oil that will be solid to a certain smoke point, and then it might liquefy, and some of them don’t. Some of them don’t at all. They stay solid all of the time, unless they’re heated to very high temperatures. That has to do with the level of saturation, meaning from a chemical standpoint, all of these carbon chains that make up these essential fatty acids, how much oxygen is attaching to the breaks in those carbon bonds. How many breaks are there, which are opportunity for oxygen to come in, which would then cause that oil to be less saturated, meaning it will dry faster.

So, for people who have a lot of oil naturally in their skin, there are definitely oils that can be really beneficial to them because they are less saturated. They’re going to absorb faster. They have a great bioavailability about them, because the skin is made up of this lipid matrix on the outside. It is designed to work with oils and actually repel water. Like attracts like. When it sees an oil that it recognizes, it sees this similar essential fatty acid composition, it reaches out to almost shake hands. Like, hey, I know you. Come on in.

It’s such a powerful way to deliver nutrients into the skin. We often see water-based products that have these active ingredients that have to be packaged into what’s called a delivery system. Usually in some for of a lypozome which is an oil soluble kind of egg that is intended to be easier penetrating, because it’s protecting that water soluble micronutrient with this oil soluble coating that helps it get into that lipid matrix. But, if we’re using oils that already have these essential fatty acids, and also have antioxidants, vitamins, and other nutrients that the skin needs in a whole plant form, it’s going to absorb that much more easily. If you’re someone with oilier skin, you can use a less saturated oil, and it’s not going to sit on the surface. It’s going to absorb, and what is not absorbed will just evaporate, which is fantastic.

If you are someone who has dryer skin where you actually do need a little more protection, you need maybe that emollient barrier, or it’s maybe this time of year, and the indoor air is very dry, because now maybe you’ve got a forced air heating system, or you’re running your fireplace. It’s just sucking the water out of your skin, which happens. That’s called transepidermal water loss, where water actually evaporates from your skin. Thicker lipids such as a coconut oil, or a shea butter, something more saturated, with less oxygen in it, is going to stay on the surface a bit longer and keep moisture in.

Oils are really important to help keep moisture in, keep water in. If you just apply a lotion or a water based product, and there’s not enough lipid inside that product, or you’re not applying a lipid afterwards, it’s going to evaporate. Oils are so important to help keep the skin nourished, protected. Even though oils themselves don’t hydrate … And that’s another myth, that oils hydrate. It’s like a big pet peeve of mine. They don’t hydrate because they don’t have any water. They’re not bringing water into the skin, but they are helping to keep water in the skin, which does then help keep the skin hydrated.

In terms of clogging, there are definitely some oils that are more prone to clog skin for some people that others. But, it really depends on each individual person’s biochemistry, the lipid structure in their skin itself. Also, what fats they’re taking in internally in their diet. That can absolutely affect how the oils on the surface of the skin behave and react with other ones. It’s kind of a little bit of trial and error necessary, but there are some oils that are known to be a bit more risky for some people with acne prone skin, or oily skin. Something like a hemp seed oil is known to be a lighter oil that is going to penetrate faster and evaporate what’s not there, and less likely to clog. Whereas certain forms of coconut oil, and certain forms of like a cocoa butter might be too heavy for that type of skin. The molecular structure might be too big. It’s not going to penetrate. It’s going to sit there and that could cause clogging to happen.

Trevor:                    Right. Wow. Okay. Well, that’s great. It gives us a lot of information about oils for the skin. I think it’s really interesting to point out, as you said earlier, that when we’re looking at traditional skincare products that have been used traditionally, up until more recently, it’s been a lot of these synthetic oils, or the ones that are not coming from plants. They have a very different effect the skin, and comparing the two on the effect it has on the skin is totally different.

It’s nice to see more of these plant oils being used. I’d see it quite often. Because, you know we have oils on our skin, and my skincare line, The Spa Doctor Line. We often hear from people with acne prone skin, oily skin, that that same kind of reservation in the beginning, of oh, I don’t want to put oil on my oily skin. But then once they start using the products, they realize not only does their skin not breakout, but their quality of their skin is improving. They’re generally breaking out less. It’s so great to see that switch. It’s almost as if, I think about when we went from our low fat diet phase in the eighties, to now we’ve kind of swung in the opposite direction. Sometimes people are going too far in the other direction with fats in diet. It’s great to see that it has to do with the quality of the ingredient, and where it’s coming from.

I love what you talked about with the seeds of that. The oils coming from the seed, and it’s the beginning of the growth of a plant and energetically what that means. That was an interesting little take on that as well. So, thank you for all of that. And then also talking about the different types of oils, even plant based oils. How some can clog pores more than others. I liked how you point out that coconut oil, that some types will clog the pores, but not all. I know that we use a little bit of coconut oil in our cleanser, but it is the type that is not going to clog pores. We definitely see that with coconut oil, as well, so thanks for pointing that out.

Rachael:                 Yeah. Coconut oil is actually a really interesting one, because there are some many different ways to source it, and to express it. Whether it’s going to be clogging, or whether it’s going to be drying, or irritant … I was actually just discussing this with one of my students who also is creating a coconut based line. She does a ton of research on it. She was saying how some of these product lines claim that a coconut oil might be more alkaline rather than acidic. For topical skincare we actually do want products to be a little bit more on the acidic side, not the alkaline side, because the skin itself is more acidic. But the varying levels of heat used to press out the coconut oil are what kind of determine the pH of the coconut oil, which can absolutely be a factor in how that reacts on someone’s skin. It also obviously depends on what other ingredients are in that formulation.

Even though coconut oil is a fairly saturated oil, it’s fairly saturated and stable, it melts at 76 degrees. But, that’s a physical change. It’s not a chemical change. It goes back and forth between solid and liquid, but it chemically does not change. The function itself does not change. It’s stable in that way, it’s just not stable in the fact that, if you’re using virgin coconut oil, and you want it to be an oil serum, but you’re shipping it to somebody and it’s cold out, that’s going to separate, most likely, or it’s going to solidify and that’s kind of a production issue that you have to deal with. Certain forms are a little bit more stable in the liquid form. And then molecularly, some of the essential fatty acids in coconut oil are a larger molecule. However, it also has a lot of medium chain triglycerides, which are a smaller molecule, and that actually does penetrate better. It really depends on the person. It depends on the overall formulation and absolutely, the quality of the coconut oil, and the sourcing.

Trevor:                    Right. And it was interesting, you were taking about pH, and I typically think of pH as not something you can test for in oils, because … Yeah. So how does-

Rachael:                 That’s hard.

Trevor:                    So, how do you look at the pH of certain coconut oil?

Rachael:                 It’s really hard to actually measure it. There’s laboratory equipment that does it. It’s not something that’s easily doable at home with strips, unless you’re making an emulsion. But, fixed oils, carrier oils, they are fatty acids. They are fatty acid chains. So, when there’s acid, there’s pH. Potential hydrogens determines acid versus alkaline. It’s something that does have to be tested on a larger scale than what we would see in a DIY product, or even a small batch artisan brand.

Trevor:                    Okay, okay. Cool. All right. I think we covered oils.

Rachael:                 We did.

Trevor:                    Let’s move on to a different one. Another thing people ask a lot about is, skin brushes and cleansing of the skin using different facial sponges and brushes, and the electronic brushes to try and cleanse the skin, clear out the pores, get off the dry skin. What do you think about all these gadgets and gizmos with skincare?

Rachael:                 It’s a tricky one, because I think that in general, in Western society, we overdo it. We have this relationship with our skin that is not actually the healthiest one. We kind of take everything out on our skin. If the skin is showing us something that we don’t like, instead of stopping to pause and think, oh well, why is this happening? What is the skin showing me? How you kind of refer to the skin as the magic mirror. Like, what can we see from what the skin is showing us? Instead of taking that pause to kind of thank our skin. Hey, thanks messenger. You’re telling me that somethings wrong here, that I haven’t already paid attention to, that my body’s been trying to tell me.

As a society we’ve come to accept so many chronic pain issues, and fatigue and all these things that are just stress related, but because we’re so used to them, even though the body might be trying to tell us something, we’re not always paying attention to it. Then the skin has to be like, hello. You can’t ignore me now, because I’m just going to show you that there’s something wrong. Instead of just pausing to try to then figure out what the issue is, so many people want to pop, or scrub, or zap. I really want people to kind of reassess that. Revisit that notion.

When we are doing some kind of skincare treatment, whether it’s cleansing, or exfoliation, we really want to be gentle. The skin is not tile and grout. We don’t need to be scrubbing at it incessantly. What’s in our pores, whether it’s blackheads, or whiteheads, or even just oil itself, none of it’s necessarily bad. It’s there for a reason. There are things that we can do to change what’s in our skin. If we have a lot of blackheads, that is a sure sign that maybe there’s something going on inside with the fats that we’re taking in, because skin cells are formed inside. They’re not formed outside. But, it is also possible that we are coming into contact with too much pollution that we’re not protecting our skin from. Or, maybe we’re using the wrong kinds of ingredients that are not actually being absorbed, so they’re kind of oxidizing and forming this debris on the surface.

I don’t have a problem with some of the more gentler, manual kind of mechanical cleansing things. I don’t personally use them at all. I’m very, very gentle. My skin is really sensitive from years of over scrubbing and years of picking and popping, and doing all the stuff I used to do to my skin before I changed my relationship with my skin. Some of the spinning brushes, if they’re super gentle, meant for sensitive skin, I don’t mind that, but I still don’t even recommend it every day. I have a really conservative approach to exfoliation in general. I believe kind of in the cornia therapy line of thought, which means that we really want to protect the epidermis. It’s there to protect us. If we are forcibly removing those cells before they’re naturally ready to come off, meaning the cells underneath are not mature enough to the point where they’re actually strong enough and healthy enough to protect us, that is going to lead to more inflammation, which can actually speedup the aging process instead of slow it down, which is what we’re trying to accomplish. Nobody wants to speed up the aging process of the skin.

I recommend to people that if you feel that you want to do something like that, use a gadget, or a brush … a lot of esthetician are using ultrasonic cleaning devices. There’s these little scrapers that are like the ion scraper things that even some of the more holistic esthetician are okay with using, that’s okay. But, I would invite you kind of from a mindset perspective, to ask yourself why you feel that’s necessary. What about your skin is so dirty that you need that? What about your skin is making you want to scrub? If you have open lesions on your skin, that’s not something you want to scrub at, because that friction is going to cause more inflammation. That’s something that needs more love and more gentleness in the approach. It’s not something that needs to be zapped and scrubbed, and even like a harsh towel, you don’t want to be rubbing really hard with it.

For me personally, I don’t use them. I don’t recommend them to my clients. If you are someone who likes to have an exfoliation treatment every now and then, I think that’s a great opportunity to treat yourself to a spa treatment and have a nice enzyme facial. Maybe if you want to use that little ultrasonic thing to kind of give the pores a good old clean out, that’s okay. I’m just not a fan of forced exfoliation on a regular basis. I really want people to be gentle and loving to their skin.

Trevor:                    Right. Yeah. I’m along the same philosophy as you. I believe that if you’re going to do exfoliation, which I think we do need periodically to help the skin cells turnover and to be able to actually let the products that we’re using absorb better into the skin, for it to be very gentle and using gentle facial sponges. I just picked up recently a little bamboo brush that’s really, really soft, and so I’m interested to try that out, too. I’m mean, looking for things that are soft, that are not going to be super abrasive. Like the exfoliant that we make is very, very finely ground up pearl, and so it’s like very fine sand. It’s not rough and abrasive on the skin. So yeah, I’m glad we’re on the same page as that.

Rachael:                 Totally.

Trevor:                    I try to get people away from those. All the harsh brushing and all the-

Rachael:                 Yeah. I just see people doing that and their skin already looks so sensitive. I’m like, oh. I just kind of want to give them a hug. Like, you don’t need to do all that. Just love up on your skin a little. If you want to do more for your skin, you can do things like cooling herbal compresses. You can do a honey mask that is one of the most gentlest forms of exfoliation you can do, and it’s also extremely hydrating and nourishing. There are so many loving things that you can do for your skin if you want to feel like you’re taking action, and you’re doing something in between facials, and in addition to your regular skincare regimen. But, I really encourage all of that to be gentle and kind towards the skin.

Regarding exfoliation, just quickly, hydration is so important because water is a catalyst for exfoliation to happen on its own. So, if you find that your skin is looking lackluster, or uneven, or you’re getting dry patches, dehydration very well could be the cause of that. I would say, look at your water intake and see if that’s something that maybe need adjusting.

Trevor:                    Yeah. Okay. Wow, that’s a good point. Yeah. Now, we’re talking about the face, what about the body when it comes to those kinds of exfoliation? What do you feel about the rest of the body?

Rachael:                 Yeah. So, excellent question, because it’s a little bit different. The skin on the rest of the body is a bit thicker than the skin on the face. It’s also covered most of the time, unless you live in a super warm climate. But, even if you live in a super warm climate, chances are you’re in air conditioning, so you’re going to be covered anyway. The skin on the body is not subjected to as much environmental contact as the skin on the face, or even the hands. The skin on the face and the hands, age much faster than the skin on the rest of the body, simply because of the fact that it is more protected.

It’s very important to stimulate the skin on the rest of the body. That can actually handle more exfoliation. I love a good sugar or salt scrub in the shower, that’s made with some of the oils that we talked about before, coconut oil, or olive oil. You just kind of scrub at it with the sugar or salt until it dissolves. Then you know you’re done, and you’re left with this smooth and gorgeous and hydrated, and moisturized skin.

But, dry brushing is also excellent to do for the body. I like a natural bristle brush, like a sisal. I recommend doing it a couple times a week. If you’re feeling under the weather, it’s nice to do it in combination with like a salt bath, so you’re kind of helping your skin with detox, and it’ll help you kind of feel better, faster. I recommend doing it gently, as well. Again, we’re not scrubbing. We’re not cleaning the tile. Upward, long, gentle but firm strokes from the extremities in towards the heart. That will stimulate the lymphatic system. You’re not doing it to scrub. You’re actually doing it to manually stimulate that lymphatic system, and also help the body release toxins that it’s storing in the fat cells. And just improve that blood and lymphatic circulation.

Other types of manual stimulation like a lymphatic drainage massage, or even other types of massage on the face and the body can give you a similar benefit if you’re worried about sensitivity with dry brushing, or scrubbing. It’s really up to you, what you’re comfortable with, but definitely, the skin on the body can handle more manual and mechanical stimulation than the skin on the face.

Trevor:                    Perfect. Okay. With you on that one. Okay, great. And, I love the dry skin brushing. I talk about it in my book.

Rachael:                 Yeah, it’s good.

Trevor:                    If you want more recommendations on that, you can find that in my book, under the clean body section. Lets more, shift into talking about some DIY stuff. There’s so many myths out there on DIY. A lot of celebrities will come out and say, oh, this is the new best thing. This is what I’m doing, and it causes me to look this beautiful. Right? What would you say are some of the DIY things out there that actually might be doing more harm than good?

Rachael:                 Yeah. So, DIY, I’m a big fan of it obviously. I make my own products. I make my clients products. I recommend that people make their own products when they can, as well. There’s kitchen DIY, and there’s kind of professional DIY. Now, kitchen DIY is when you’re using ingredients that you can find in your home to make products. There’s nothing wrong with that, if you’re using things that are not too acidic, or too alkaline.

This is where we run into issues. I’m sure your audience has seen Pinterest posts and wellness blog posts about using lemon juice for acne, or lemon juice for dark spots, baking soda as an exfoliation, or for acne. These are two of the biggest ones I see. The problem with that is that, the lemon is acidic. Now, when you ingest it, it produces an alkaline ash, but that does not happen on the surface of the skin. It might definitely cause a temporary brightening effect, but it is an alpha hydroxy acid. It can produce too much exfoliation, too quickly as we talked about before, where we kind of want to avoid that. It might temporarily bleach a dark spot that you might see, but that’s only on the outermost layers. Those dark pigment areas actually start much deeper than that. So, they’ll come to the surface if those cells are still damaged.

I find that overdoing remedies like lemon juice, actually can produce more hyperpigmentation in the long run. And it also can cause photosensitivity, or photo toxicity if someone puts that on, and then goes into the sun, or lives in an area where they’re outside a lot, or they’re exposed to UV radiation a lot. That’s a problem. That’s a big problem, because that can actually cause chemical burns, and permanent damage.

Now, baking soda is on the other side of the spectrum. It’s alkaline. It’s used frequently in DIY deodorants, because of its deodorizing effects. It’s used often times with the no pooh method for washing your hair. But even so, it’s got to be diluted, a lot if you’re going to use it topically. When I see things like, oh, make a paste. No, please don’t, because if you make a paste and you put it on, an alkaline substance is going to burn the skin and cause as much irritation as something acidic. And because the skin already skews on the acidic side, it actually can be more damaging to use something alkaline, than something acidic. So those, backing soda and lemon kind of paste things, I don’t recommend those at all.

I recommend using things like the recipes in your book. The DIY recipes in your book are all very safe, and they’re all things that are found in the house, in the health food store. Stuff like that is fine. It’s gentle. You do have to make it frequently and keep it in the frig if you’re not using it right away. But, if you’re doing that, I recommend people do it kind of like when you’re making your meal planning. Or doing your meal planning, or cooking your meals. It’s essentially cooking. You’re feeding your skin from the outside, instead of your body from the inside. It’s all the same thing. If people are like, oh, I don’t have time to do that. Sure you do. Just do it all at the same time, while you’re doing your other cooking for the week, and it’s fine.

But if you do want something that is more shelf-stable, then it gets a little bit more complicated. That’s because if you’re using something that contains water, like an herbal tea, like a juice, like a hydrosol, anything that contains water or plant matter, it’s going to have to have a preservative if you’re not keeping it in the refrigerator and using it within a few days. Natural preservation, that’s a massive topic. It is possible. It’s not a perfect thing right now. Green chemistry is advancing rapidly because demand for all natural and very mildly preserved products has increased so much. I know you found a great preservation system for your product line, which is hard to do. It requires so much testing both with the formulation itself, and then in terms of stability for shelf life.

Anytime you do have something that you make, and it has water in it, whether it is something that you want to just put in a bottle and use yourself, like a toner. I have so many people who are like, oh, I just want to use rosewater and witch hazel as a toner. Well, guess what? That can go bad if you don’t refrigerate it, or put a preservative in it. There are so many different things you can do. You can add a certain percentage of alcohol. You can get broad spectrum preservatives from online suppliers if you know how to use them. And, I recommend you know how to use them. Don’t just buy them and stick them … That’s dangerous. But also, if you’re making a cream or a lotion.

I unfortunately have seen even some herbal books that recommend mixing hydrosols with some of the oils we talked about before. And then, using essential oils to preserve, or using vitamin E, or using rosemary. It’s not adequate. It’s not adequate because you really need what’s known as a broad spectrum preservative, which protects against gram positive, gram negative bacteria, as well as mold and yeast. That’s not something that essential oils can do. Essential oils themselves are extremely powerful. They absolutely do have antimicrobial properties. However, the concentration that would be required for that action to be effective in that type of product would be too high to be able to be safely applied to the skin. I would not consider that a viable, natural preservation method on its own.

There are certainly natural ingredients that do have some naturally occurring antimicrobial properties, but you still need to add a preservative. You still need to test. I typically formulate, like for a three to six month shelf life, because quite frankly, I think we should be using products that are as fresh as possible. Just like with food, we don’t want to eat food that’s been sitting around on a shelf for months and months and months, and months. It’s going to be most beneficial to be freshest.

I think if you’re going to do a DIY, and you want to use kitchen DIY, like what you write about in your book, by all means do it. Go for it. You can absolutely have incredible skin using remedies like that, on a regular basis. I would so much rather people do that, then go to the drugstore, any day. But if you are someone who doesn’t want to make products every day, or you want to use herbs, and you want to use oils, and you want to make creams and lotions, then I recommend that you learn how to do it properly. I teach a course on that. But it’s not rocket science, because people have been doing it for thousands of years, really. But to do it safely, is so important now. It doesn’t even matter if you’re making them for yourself, or for someone else, because … I have so many people who are like, oh, I’m just making this for myself. I don’t have to add a preservative. It’s like, okay. So, you want an eye infection? You want a rash?

Trevor:                    That’s a good point. So what happens if people’s skin … If their skincare products start to grow mold, and sometimes you can see these things, like the mold growing on it. But, most of the time you can’t see it. It’s just natural. There’s bacteria all around us, and that’s actually not a bad thing, but when it gets in your products and it starts to overgrow, what are the kinds of things that can happen?

Rachael:                 Like what you just said. Sometimes you can see if contamination has occurred. Sometimes you can’t. Most of the times you can’t. It would be great if the product just went moldy, and you’re like, oh, okay. It’s done now. The skin itself does have a microbiome that’s suppose to keep out pathogens, but we can’t predict what is going to grow in that container, and how your skin is going to react to it.

The most common things that can happen when people use contaminated products is rashes, contact dermatitis, eye infections are extremely common. This is one of the reasons why with eye products, eye creams, eye makeup, you want to absolutely make sure that you are replacing those very often, and not contaminating them, because the eyes are just so susceptible. That is your vision. You don’t want to mess with your vision. It’s just not worth it. I’ve even heard some stories of blindness coming from exposure to pathogens. We’re not here to fear monger. That’s not what its about. If you don’t want to learn how to do this yourself, then there are beautiful lines, like yours, that people can trust that testing has already been accounted for.

But, a lot of people these days really do want to take all aspects of their health into their own hands. I encourage that as well, just learn how to do it right. Learn what you’re doing. Don’t put your health at risk. It’s just not worth it. I’m always happy to talk this like til the sun don’t shine. It’s my passion. But, I really feel strongly that people should know what they’re doing.

Trevor:                    That’s great. You mentioned, when you were talking about DIY, it needs to have a natural preservative or be kept in the refrigerator. But I wanted to … I’m sure you would have added on to this that it doesn’t stay good in the refrigerator forever. Even if you put things in the refrigerator, they’ll still go off. So, there’s a time limit on that.

Rachael:                 Absolutely.

Trevor:                    They’ll just kind of lengthen the amount of time that it-

Rachael:                 Well, yeah. Your refrigerator itself can be contaminated. I mean, yeah. You just gotta be careful. So if you’re only relying on refrigeration, use that within three days, and that’s it. Just make yourself a little bit at a time. Use if for a few days, and then make it again. Some people love making products every few days, because it’s fun. You can experiment. You can use different ingredients, different herbal tea mixes, or hydrosols. They smell amazing. They feel amazing. Some people just really love doing that. People who love to cook, typically also love to make skincare. There’s a lot of similarities with the techniques. So yeah, absolutely, you do not want to be relying on the refrigerator for months and months and months and months on end, because that’s going to work.

Trevor:                    Okay, great. So Rachael, you’ve given us so much information here. I know we could keep talking, going on and on and on, but I know you have a course on DIY skincare. You’ve also got a summit going on. I want you to tell everybody about that.

Rachael:                 I have the Herbal Skincare Summit, which starts on January 8th, and runs through January 12th. We have 15 plus herbalists, holistic health experts, and skincare experts who are all coming together to teach about various ways herbs can help you have the skin of your dreams, really. We talk about how to use herbs internally. You’re a guest on my summit, and we talked a lot about using specific herbs in your diet, as well as topically, and also foods. When we’re talking about herbs, we’re really talking about plants. So many foods themselves would be considered herbs. We have to talk about the inside, and the outside, just like we talked about at the very beginning of this conversation, that really is what the holistic approach is.

Herbalism does not work allopathically. It works on the whole person. It works to support the body, to help itself. It doesn’t work like, oh, see that spot? Let’s put some herbs on it. There are certainly some herbal preparations that can be used for little acute things, but that’s not really how it’s meant. It is a whole body healing system for the entire person, not just for the skin.

We have experts who are talking about oils, like we talked about today. We have essential oils, different ways to create different herbal formulations, considerations on how you want to choose your ingredients. We talk from traditional Chinese medicine perspective, as well as from an Adervedic’s perspective. We even have a couple of speakers who are in there to talk about herbal business and herbal skincare business for those who are interested in taking this to the next level, and offering it in their communities, or online. There’s just a lot of resources.

I really wanted to do this because I have always been passionate about skincare because it affected my life in such a profound way. I had such struggles with acne for so long. When I finally found what worked, it was like I could live. It really was. I found that peace and that relief through the plants. The more I work with plants, the more I formulate, the more herbal conferences I attend, and the more plant people I spend time with, the stronger it is, that the plants are just calling to us, and just collectively. For some people, herbalism is still kind of a new thing, or they don’t understand really how it works. For new things, I really feel strongly that we should be introducing them to people in a way that they can easily integrate it into their regular life.

We all wash our faces, right? We wash our face. We shower, I hope. We wash ourselves. We moisturize. We do this on a regular basis. It’s so much more logical for me to teach you how to add this to something you’re already doing, then say hey, go drink six cups of this herbal tea that tastes terrible, every single day. It’s a matter of compliance really. If you are trying to help someone feel better, and look better, they have to actually want to do what you’re telling them to do. Skincare for so many people is so much more fun than medicine, or tinctures or teas. It’s less work. It’s more fun. Let’s bring it in. Let’s bring it into something people enjoy and let the plants introduce themselves that way, and see what other amazing things happen.

I’m honored that you’re a guest. We have an incredible lineup of very knowledgeable speakers. So yeah, January 8th through 12th is the Herbal Skincare Summit.

Trevor:                    Okay, great. We’ll have a linkup under your interview, on my website, on the podcast page. And I’ll also include a link to your website, so people can learn more about your courses, and other things you’re up to. I do often times send people, because sometimes people say to me, I just want to make my own moisturizers. Moisturizers are not an easy thing to make, so I send people to you and say, go check out Rachael’s course. She’s going to teach you how to make your own products, and do it safely. If that’s something you’re interested in, definitely checkout Rachael’s stuff.

Rachael, you’re awesome. I want to thank you for being such a great resource for my book. When I was writing it, I would call you up. I would email you, say okay, so I need some help on this DIY thing. So you were very helpful, so I very much appreciate your feedback on those things.

Rachael:                 Oh, it was an honor that you asked me. It was really a pleasure to work on that with you. As I’ve said before, I love how your book came out. You did a fantastic job.

Trevor:                    Thank you. Thank you so much. And Rachael, thanks for coming on today. It was great to see you, and good luck with the summit.

Rachael:                 Thank you so much.

Trevor:                    I hope you enjoyed this interview today with Rachael Pontillo. Got some great tips on how to improve the quality of your skin, instead of doing practices that might be actually harming your skin, to do things instead that really nourish your skin. You can find out more about Rachael. All you have to do is go to thespadr.com. Go to the podcast page with her interview, and you’ll find all the information about her, the links, and information about the upcoming summit.

While you’re there, on the website, I invite you to join The Spa Dr. community. You can also subscribe to the podcast on iTunes, so you don’t miss any of our upcoming shows. If you haven’t done so already, I highly recommend you go to theskinquiz.com. Get your own customized skin report. It’s free. It only takes a few minutes. You can get information about what your skin is trying to tell you about your health, and what you can do about it. Just go to theskinquiz.com. Also, I invite you to join me on social media on Facebook, Twitter, Pinterest, Instagram, YouTube, and join the conversation. I’ll see you next time on The Spa Dr. Podcast.