Breaking Dieting “Rules” with Cassie Bjork

Trevor: Dr Trevor Cates. Welcome to the Spa Doctor podcast. On today’s podcast, we’re talking about breaking the rules around the typical approach to diets and weight loss. My guest today is Cassie Bjork. She’s a globally recognized industry leader in weight loss, a highly sought after speaker, and the number one international bestselling author. Why am I so fat? The hidden keys to unlocking that stubborn weight loss. Kathy has been on my podcast before. She’s a registered Dietitian, but not your typical Dietitian, and she explains during the interview today why she why and how she is different, but for over 10 years she is helped tens of thousands of women and men achieve the bodies and lives they want, not by starving or stamping, but by eating the foods that fuel effective and a sustainable weight lost. In today’s interview, we debunk some of the myths around dieting and many of that same infant misinformation about weight loss also applies to nutrition for healthy skin. So I hope you enjoy this interview with cassie. Cassie is so great to have you back on my podcast.

Cassie: Hey Trevor, I’m excited to be back.

Trevor: Yeah, so last time you talked about, gave us a lot of nutrition tips and you’ve got but some interesting stuff has come up for, for, for you recently. So what did it have you back on so we could have another discussion? So what you share with everybody, what’s been going on with you lately?

Cassie: Yeah, so, um, I think last time too, we talked about just how my whole approach as a Dietitian is a lot different than a lot of the other dieticians that people may come in contact with them. A sense of, um, you know, I’m kind of known as the dietitian talking about eating more calories to lose weight, eating butter and lose weight and things like that. And it’s more of like a holistic functional medicine based approach I guess you could say. And actually what happened earlier this year as I ended up giving up my dietician license, which is a really big deal because I was known for almost a decade and Dietitian cassie and um, to give up that life that I worked so hard for and was so proud of. And that really, I like, it became like almost like part of my identity. That was a really big deal.

Cassie: There’s good reason for it. So do you want me to kind of dive into like what happened there? Yeah, yeah, go ahead. Okay, cool. So just kind to go back to the beginning. I mean I became a dietician because I just had this passion for helping people and nutrition and fitness. I was so curious about how everything worked when it came to food and the body and I knew that like one of the answers to living life to its fullest potential was I’m eating well. So that was my focus and that was like the Bullseye for me. I wanted to learn everything that I could and help more people follow like these, you know, dieting rules. So that’s what I did is I went to school to be a Dietitian but almost right away. And you know, maybe it was because, you know, back in my early twenties, I was, I dunno, kind of naive and wasn’t able to listen to my own intuition as well back then, but almost right away it just felt like something was off and personally I did everything I was supposed to do in school.

Cassie: Like I followed all these dietary rules that I’m sure lots of your listeners can relate to eating low fat and low calorie and working out like a maniac and trying to burn more calories than you’re taking in. And what happened to me was I started to gain weight and not just like two pounds or five pounds, but like 10, 15, 20 pounds. And it’s just like, baffled me. I was like, what, how is this even happening and what I’m eating less and I’m working out more and I’m gaining weight. So I did what probably a lot of us have done. As I doubled down on the Diet he enrolls, I worked out harder and eat less and thought that would fix it and that my body would obey, but it didn’t. Um, I actually just ended up getting hungrier and Moodier and my sugar cravings are out of control and my waistline expanded.

Cassie: Um, so maybe that should have been like my first sign that somebody is dieting. Rules weren’t quite spot on, but um, I’m kind of stubborn and I just put the shame and the blame on myself and my own body and just said, you know, there’s probably just something wrong with me. Um, I didn’t realize it could be the process that I was following. Um, so that happened. And then long story short, something happened with my father is that he ended up having to go in for immediate, unexpected major heart surgery and we were trying to figure out like how could this have possibly happened? And because he was like the picture of health to me, he was like running a race when he felt the chest tightness and he wasn’t a drinker. He didn’t smoke, he was super active. He was eating low fat, low calorie just like I was.

Cassie: And I remember being in his hospital room after he had this major surgery and the Dietitian came in and she told him to keep doing all the things he’d already been doing. She said, just make sure you eat low fat, low calorie and keep exercising. And I was like, he’s already doing all of those things. And she’s like, perfect, keep doing that. I was like, what? Like pretty sure that’s what landed him on your operating table. So that combined with my own story of how I was like trying to follow these rules and I was gaining weight, it just didn’t make sense to me. So really that was like the beginning of my journey. That’s where I really started diving into like all the actual research and trying to figure things out on my own. And I saw like this life and his death possibility with my dad’s heart surgery and what was going on with me.

Cassie: And what I found was that most of these rules, quote unquote rules that we’ve been told about food and Diet and metabolism and weight loss. They’re flat out wrong, they’re outdated. And they’re heavily influenced by large companies and industries who stand from gaining or you know, can gain from putting out this misinformation. So that’s really what started my journey and what happened was like all these, all the information that I was learning when I was diving into the research I started to implement into my own life and I started to eat more food and more healthy fat and I exercise last and I kind of just like started to, I guess in a sense give up, but more so just like surrender all the Yoyo dieting and all of that obsession and craziness that I had been in for so long. And that’s when things changed for me.

Cassie: Like in a really, really good way. Like that’s when my energy levels went up and my cravings went away and I actually lost weight without even trying, which didn’t make any sense to me. I was like, how is this even working? So what happened was I realized I was not the only person who has probably gone through something like this where they have dieted and they’ve gained weight and felt more frustrated and frankly fatter than like before they even began the Diet and I realized that a lot of other people could probably benefit from learning this new, not new research, but it was new to me and like the science that I hadn’t seen before when it came to weight loss and metabolism. So that was really the foundation for our rulebreakers weight loss coaching program that we’ve put thousands of women through our weight loss program over the past decade and it’s worked for so many people.

Cassie: So how this ties in to this whole license story is okay, and just to be clear, the day that I earned my certification to be a licensed Dietitian was probably one of the happiest days of my life. I worked so hard for that credential and I was so proud of it and the authority that I really believed that it gave me, um, and I was just ready to use it, you know, to help people lose weight and get healthier. Um, and then just a few years into my career as a licensed Dietitian, that’s when something’s super unexpected happened. The Minnesota board of dietetics and nutrition served me with papers to seize and desist my approach to nutrition and weight loss. And after that I spent almost six years fighting to keep that license. And then earlier this year is when I finally surrendered it and I didn’t lose it. I might’ve won the fight.

Cassie: I had a really good case and really good attorneys and all of that. But I ended up just giving it up when I realized that it doesn’t even align with what I believe. And there’s just this one day that I was like, what am I even fighting for? Like, why am I fighting so hard to keep this? So really, I mean the long story short is that it was because they didn’t like what I was teaching, like every piece of information that we teach in our weight loss program, the reason why our program works and the reason why it helps people lose weight and keep it off is because it blocks the very rules that I was taught in Dietitian school. Like one of the big things is I found that food, it’s not just about food, it’s not just about exercise. These are just pieces of this huge weight loss equation.

Cassie: We need to look at hormones, we have to look at thyroid function and sleep and stress and supplemental, a whole big picture. And they didn’t want me talking about anything other than low calorie, low calorie, low fat food. So. And that’s exactly why our approach work. So it was just this really interesting conundrum and when it came down to it, I had to say like, I’m not going to teach what I don’t believe in. Like, I’m not going to like restrict all the knowledge and that I know that has helped so many people just to keep this license. So that’s what happened.

Trevor: Well still I can only imagine how frustrating that was too, to have worked that hard to get a license or degree. I know, you know, it’s a lot of work to get that and then to have them then fight you on it and um, but it’s great that you went with what what you know works for you and works works for your, your clients. And so I feel like there is a lot of misinformation out there and maybe it’s part of it as it just takes some time, like there’s a little bit of a lag and the education and the training for. I mean I think I see this across different industries. You see it in skincare too. It’s, it. No. Sometimes it takes a little while for the research to catch up with the principles and practices that people out there actually doing.

Cassie: Yeah. Yeah, I think so too. I think that, I mean I can definitely, it takes some time to change, especially when I’m a lot of like what we’re, what we hear is just like so backward. It’s like not only are we hearing like cholesterol is really bad for you, but then we’re hearing it’s really good for you or eat low fat or high fat. Like when things are in such opposition, I think it can take awhile to really change and for people to actually be open to changing their mindset on that. But I also think, you know, a lot of us, especially like healthcare professionals, maybe, maybe not everyone, maybe not all the listeners are familiar with. There’s like this whole, like epic tragic story of how the sugar industry influence our nation’s eating habits. Um, and how the food pyramid, like what we’re used as a basis for healthy eating for years, um, was really based on that.

Cassie: And I bring. I bring that up because there’s, I think there’s some different examples where it’s not just about the education, it’s about like there’s other forces involved like, like money and bureaucracy. And like with that sugar industry example, I mean, for instance, that was in the 19 sixties, there was a single study that was anonymously funded by the Sugar Research Foundation, I think, and it proved quote unquote, that fat causes heart disease and that sugar has little to no effect. And that was absolutely bogus. It was contrary to all other reputable research. And the crazy thing is the federal government actually use that study as a basis for policy even though the officials were fully aware that it was slide. And when I think about that, I can only wonder what the incentive might be. And like might it have been financial, might they have been getting money from it. I mean, you, you just don’t know. And I think there’s these things that happen behind closed doors that influence, you know, what we’re being taught and we don’t always know what the motive is.

Trevor: Right, right. And that is, that is frustrating or is this because. Yeah, I mean, and, and part of it is who is, where does the money come from and who is funding that? And it’s uh, and you know, there does need to be funding for things, but without bias is our preference. Right? So that’s really what research is. And that’s why whenever anybody tells me, Oh, there’s this study that shows that, you know, for example, um, you know, lavender essential oil caused breast development and young boys or something. I’m like, what? That’s like, that’s ridiculous. We look at that and you look closely at this study and you see, you know, the way this is a, you can make a study show anything. And so it’s important for people to have some awareness or at least reliable sources to go to, to get the real facts and to get the real information.

Trevor: And research is fantastic. But, um, sometimes it’s flawed. And so it’s kind of like that study that you were mentioning. Um, and I think there’s so much money that goes into marketing to, for what you’re talking about, there became this whole low fat face. And I remember this really well, is there will be packaging. It said this is low fat or no fat. But if people actually turned around the label and read the ingredients, it was loaded with sugar so they would replace the fat with sugar and that was actually doing more harm than good. So it was not only that we’re depleting our bodies of fats, but we’re also now loading us with sugar and I’m seeing this in similar trend happening now with things like gluten free. So you see on the label and people are like, oh, it’s good for that. Must mean it’s good. And they actually turn over the turn the bottle around, look at the ingredients and it’s heavily processed product with bad fats, sugars, artificial ingredients. Yeah.

Cassie: There’s more sugar and gluten free products and more junk than in the non gluten free. And that’s such a good point. I mean, yeah, like what you were saying about the fat, low fat foods, a lot of times I’m a lot more sugar because they do that because they have to taste good because fat is really palpable and when you remove the fat and replace it with sugar and that’s how they get it to be just as tasty. But the problem is, when I started doing that back in the 1970 is when you really look at the data, we have not gotten any center or any healthier. In fact the opposite has happened. I mean ever since then the rates of obesity and type two diabetes and heart disease and cancer, they’ve all skyrocketed and to pretty much the highest it’s ever been in world history.

Cassie: And looking at like that changed. That was made like that didn’t do us any good. And I think the crazy thing is too, like I’ll never. When I went to my first, it was like the very first conference I ever went to as a Dietitian. It was the food and nutrition conference and expo and it was in Chicago. And I remember I walked in and I saw this entire tent set up by Pepsi and Pepsi was sponsoring this Calorie counting campaign. And I remember thinking to myself like I could make sense as to why Pepsi was sponsoring this annual dietician event. And then I saw splenda and then I saw a mcdonald’s giving a little fruit yogurt breakfast. And then I saw general mills and it, like the whole meeting was sponsored by all of these big food companies and I think, you know, I think something we can really take away from this, this anytime there’s something that like doesn’t quite click or quite make sense and especially when it has to do with business and especially when it has to do with bureaucracy, the answer usually usually lies with, you know, follow the money and like once I started really seeing the, all the intertwining of these big food industries and the sugar industry and Coca Cola and Pepsi and how their presence really played a role in, um, in my education.

Cassie: Um, those were like really big Aha moments for me. And the relationship between Big Food and the certifying boards really is frightening because really when you think about it would, that was doing so all these companies were sponsoring where dieticians are getting their continuing education credits and then you can imagine how that links back into what Dietitians are teaching. So also something I took away from that was like just because my approach is so different than other Dietitians, I’m not bashing other Dietitians like I, I was, I went to that same education and I think that it can be really confusing like when that’s what you’re being taught for four years in school and your undergraduate degree and then you go to get a dietetic internship and like that’s what the whole foundation is based on big food who’s sponsoring like no wonder, no wonder sometimes dietitians teach things that maybe are more in line with what those companies believe.

Cassie: Because for instance, Pepsi there, they were sponsoring this calorie counting campaign and basically what they were teaching will never forget this. It was, they were saying they wanted you to drink diet Pepsi because you know, they, they were really like drilling in like it’s all about calories, calories in, calories out. That’s why it’s okay to drink diet pepsi. So they want, they wanted us to believe that whole calories in, calories out thing because then it made it okay to have diet Pepsi. And then also they were saying with regular soda, as long as you burn it off, it’s totally fine, but that’s also totally overlooking the fact that there’s more, there’s more damage being done. It’s not just about the empty calories we know with soda or pop like I like to call it, you know, in the Midwest, um, there’s a lot more detrimental effects that come from drinking it. But of course they don’t want us to think that. So anyway, I just bring all this up because I think sometimes it’s really important to just kind of like stop and feel into it. And I remember that moment when I walked in that conference being like, this doesn’t really make sense. It doesn’t really feel right. Like what’s going on here? And that feeling in us can really. I think it can be really telling.

Trevor: Right, right. And just so people know about Diet Sodas, I’m the artificial sweeteners, they come with some health concerns. They also, when you’re, when you’re drinking something sweet like that, especially with these artificial sweeteners, your body still thinks you’re having something sweet. So you’ll crave more sweet and there’s a physiologic process that happens to make your body crave more sweets. So people that drink diet sodas tend to eat more, you know, other high sugar or other sweet things with a continued. It’s a, it’s a crave that happens. And this is part of what’s happened too is even with, you know, replacing fat with sugars is then it became like an addictive thing. So when you have fat and food, it’s, it can actually be satisfying and cause you to eat less. Um, so when that happened, when that trend happen, if he, you know, eating less fat and eating more sugar, we’re causing people to overeat.

Trevor: So you as contradictory. And so people then got into this conflict of, I know I’m supposed to eat less calories, but now I’m craving more sweets. And so it’s this vicious cycle. So then they turned to, like you’re saying, diet sodas, artificial sweeteners, but those come with an array, an array of issues too. I know you know that Splenda, for example, is a, is a really popular one now because some people turned away from nutrasweet and I’m a Saccharin and those types of sweeteners because of the concerns with those, but sucralose is a chlorinated sugar and so it’s definitely not something you want to be fueling your body with. Um,

Cassie: there was a study they did with lab rats and I, I’m probably gonna Butcher it, so I’m just going to tell you kind of take away from it is they basically fed the rats through their vein. They fed them pure sugar and then they did the same thing with artificial sweeteners and they let the rats choose which they wanted and every time they chose the artificial sweeteners. And I think that just shows you like how addictive but not just sugar is because we know sugar is addictive. We know sugar has the same effect on the brain as cocaine. And that’s why. Yeah, like you’re saying, you know, fat actually keeps you full and fat makes you feel satisfied. When they removed the fat, added a bunch of sugar. It just makes us happen to that cycle of sugar addiction and we just want more and we want more and we eat more.

Cassie: But the same thing can happen with artificial sweeteners. Artificial sweeteners can even cause weight gain. Um, I think that they can kind of mess up your metabolism because your body just gets confused. It doesn’t really know is it getting sugar, is it not going to sugar because you kind of get the hit and you think that sugar is coming, but then it’s not. So we see with our clients that these do not help them lose weight and there’s really not a single study that shows that artificial sweeteners help with weight loss. It can actually do the opposite.

Trevor: Right? Right.

Cassie: Absolutely. And of course as we know, you know, with, um, and then you know, again with the artificial sweeteners, then people would still was, still will tend to eat high sugary foods. They’ll just find it somewhere else or they’ll, they’ll be, I’m craving high carbohydrate foods. So potato chips, chips, popcorn, you know, whatever. Those kinds of crackers and breads and those kinds of things that you know, ultimately is also going to increase the blood sugar and that they think sugar it just think of, you know, cake and pop and candy and cookies and things like that. But um, just because you don’t have a sweet tooth doesn’t necessarily mean you’re not craving sugar. Sometimes people will say, well, I don’t have a sweet tooth. I’m more of a salty person, but when they’re having popcorn and chips and um, food like that, those high carb foods, even bread or toast or crackers or things like that, those all turn into sugar in the body. It’s the same thing. It’s like all carbohydrates, they’re turning into sugar in your body. So really, I mean, whether it’s a cookie or a bag of chips, it’s a sugar addiction. It’s a sugar craving, sugar addiction. It just throws you into that vicious cycle. All

Trevor: right, and you and I are both talking a lot about sugar in blood sugar because of, it definitely impacts weight from. You talked to a lot of people about weight and I’m talking to people about their skin a lot. There are implications with high blood sugar that create issues for both. Of course we know that increased blood sugar is going to, um, you know, to cause you to put more weight on. Also, it’s going to make people more predisposed, predisposed to diabetes or prediabetes. And then as far as the skin goes, it, it accelerates the aging process and makes people more likely to, um, to break out in acne and have acne issues. Um, inflammatory skin issues overall. So there are a lot of reasons why we want to. Why, why are you and are spending a lot of time on sugar and artificial sweeteners to that are no, no better.

Trevor: Another one that’s really interesting is the dairy industry and how they, I haven’t mentioned that one, but you know, how that affected the food pyramid to a lot of money went behind the dairy industry and the ads like milk does the body good and all of that. And people really still believe that the only way to get calcium is through, um, dairy products, which as I’m sure you know, as you know, yeah, dairy products actually do contain a lot of calcium if you actually measure a director, but our bodies don’t necessarily absorb it very well. So we actually do better with other things like, like leafy Greens and um, and you know, salmon and things like that that are going to be your body’s actually going to, to absorb calcium through. But um, the industry did a lot of diy, you know, and they’re still promoting the food pyramid. That’s what a lot of dairy products, how many dairy products are recommended and then day to day basis on the food permit.

Cassie: Well, if we keep changing it to you and I’ll change it, but I do know that dairy products are super insulinogenic, which means they raise are they increased insulin in the body more than so many other foods and it’s just crazy. And they can actually set us up for those cravings, sugar cravings, because they’re spiking our insulin levels so much. And I don’t know about you. I mean, you’re the expert on this, but for us, we see it to clients that have skin conditions, skin issues. First thing we do is cut out dairy. I mean, it could be a different food sensitivity of course, but we see that as a really, really big one.

Trevor: Right? It was just one of the top food triggers too. So I ended up taking, you know, and it’s one of the foods I talk about in my book, clean skin from within for people to eliminate during the two week program to see how they do without it. Um, what’s interesting to always, um, I, my 11 year old daughter is in school and I’m bringing this up because it is important for us because you and I are educating. People are watching this, listening to this and they’re thinking about this for their own lives. But it’s impacting our children too. And the generation that’s coming up. So my daughter comes back home from school, she goes to a public school and, and even in her dance class to they’re teaching, they’re still teaching about the food pyramid and, and making sure that you’re getting in certain number of dairy products a day on a certain number of grains.

Trevor: And she, she’s like, mom, it’s crazy that they’re still teaching this. And I raised my hand and I asked questions and they dismissed me that like I’m talking about and I, you know, I, I find it really frustrating and I know it’s just, it’s part of this whole system, but I don’t know how we change it because it’s still going in and this is my 11 year old. And so they’re teaching this in the schools. They’re going to rate raise with this information. Luckily my daughter knows this is um, you know, not all true, but other kids aren’t going to know that.

Cassie: I think it’s really tough. And I think, I think the exciting thing is that a lot of the information that we’re talking about, it is getting out there more. It’s slowly but surely. I mean, we’re hearing more about Paleo and eating more, you know, even even gluten free. I mean, of course the standard gluten free diet isn’t necessarily a healthy one. They’re just replacing gluten with sugar in a bunch of other stuff, but you know, it starting the conversation and more people are aware of like what the Paleo Diet is. And again, there’s misconceptions around that. Some people think it’s all just a bunch of red meat, but it’s, it’s getting people talking about eating real foods and the whole 30 movement and things like that. So I think it’s, I dunno, I think, I think that we just have to kind of keep doing what we’re doing and we also have to be advocates for ourselves because, and for and for our kids too. I mean, I think a tricky thing that I think it’s a tricky thing for a lot of people is that feeling of like when you’re going in to see your general health care practitioner and they’re asking you those questions like, you know, do, do you drink milk? How many servings of yogurt do you eat a day? And things like that. And you have to be with saying that, that’s just not what I believe and I’m, I’m not gonna eat that and you, you get to be your own advocate no matter how difficult it is.

Trevor: Right? Yeah, it’s true. And, and think about where you’re getting your education problem in a physician’s medical. Doctors are not, most of them don’t get training and nutrition. So I’m,

Cassie: most of them have like a weekend certification in nutrition, which is really bad and really scary because a lot of times they are kind of the go to for questions. I’m even nutrition other than other than registered dieticians. A lot of people will ask their primary care physician’s questions and they don’t have a lot of nutrition training. And then keeping in mind that, you know, these governing boards are, you know, the ones who are certifying dieticians and nutritionists like to this very day, the board that certifies Dietitians, they are sponsored by Splenda, the dairy council, um, sugar producers, producers. I’m a milk company and we do have to keep that in mind. That’s where a lot of practitioners are getting their education from, which is scary. And hopefully it won’t be the case forever and right now it is, and it’s just something that it’s good for us to be aware of.

Trevor: Yeah, it is, it is good to be aware of and just to ask questions and not just, yeah, I think the days of us just, you know, nodding our heads in agreement with everything that our doctors, the doctors say you can keep more people are asking questions and um, uh, wanting to be educated consumers. So I think we’ll just have to keep along that. And that’s why the reasons why I have my podcast, I can share information, we can ask questions and have conversations that will have a ripple effect. So thank you for um, being a rule breaker.

Cassie: Yeah. And you know, we were talking so much about sugar and not eating sugar. I want to like turn like Kinda like a conversation with a little bit more of a positive note. So we also talked about how good fat is and I think that’s one of the super exciting things like when we’re talking about cutting out sugar and not eating as much bread and cookies and candy and chips and all of that. Like the exciting thing is that you can actually have really yummy healthy fats like butter and Avocados and the coconut oil and nuts and seeds and I don’t know, even dark chocolate that’s better than a lot of the other treats and stuff out there and those are actually going to be good for your metabolism and good for your waistline and good for your brain health. And they help you focus and they give you that sustained energy and they keep cravings away.

Cassie: So as you’re kind of like keeping in mind, you know, as listeners are listening to this and they’re like, okay, well I’m not supposed to eat sugar. I’m not supposed to have artificial sweeteners. I like to add in things instead of just taking away. So just remember like healthy fat is really, really good for you. And a lot of times, unless we’re being intentional about eating healthy fat, we just naturally are eating more of a low fat diet because you were talking about added fat so you know, maybe you’re clicking into your vegetables in butter, but then maybe want to add a sprinkle of sunflower seeds or add some avocado to your salad or you know, they’re having a smoothie. Put some nut butter in it. As long as you don’t have an allergy or sensitivity because he’s written, the verdict is in, you know, these good fats are really, really good for us.

Cassie: They’re no longer, they’re not deemed as sinful or bad for you, like we were led to believe for so long. We know that healthy fat, they help you lose weight. It helps you feel satisfied. They help keep you away from the sugar. And a lot of times our clients will come to us with intense sugar cravings. May want to get out of that addictive cycle of like having that sugar demon and them. And it’s like, how do I stop? Well, I don’t think we can really stop unless we’re actually satisfying ourselves to begin with and I think the first step would be adding in healthy fat and just a couple tablespoons, like every time I eat I’m like, do I have a couple of tables with a healthy fat and that might look like half of an avocado. It might look like a couple actual tablespoons of butter or coconut oil or maybe a handful of nuts or handful of seeds, but just making sure that you’re including healthy fat every time you eat, it’s going to help keep you away from the sugar and keep you full and satisfied.

Trevor: Yeah, absolutely. All right, well thank you for that tip. Anything else you want to share with everybody before we. And how can they find you?

Cassie: Yeah, you can find [email protected] and yeah, I love, I love talking about breaking all of the dieting rules because I think for so long, you know, we’ve been following these rules that really weren’t serving us. I mean, anybody who’s trying to lose weight or get healthy and struggled to do it has asked themselves like, what am I doing wrong? And like I shared, I’ve learned the hard way that most of these rules we’ve been told they’re not even right in the first place. They don’t help us and these are rules that really deserve breaking. We need to set our own that actually work for us. So you’ll find a lot more about that. I’m over at Kathy Dot net.

Trevor: Awesome. Thanks so much for coming onto the casio is fun. We’ll have a conversation with you about breaking the rules.

Cassie: Yeah. I don’t want to be rule breakers in some way, especially when the rules don’t even work.

Trevor: All right. Thanks for coming. I hope you enjoyed today’s interview with Cassie and got some information, maybe some questions answered and cleared up some confusion about some of the misinformation out there on dieting and weight loss. So to learn more about Cassie, you can go to the SPADr.Com go to the podcast page with her interview and you’ll find all the information and links there and while you’re there on the spot dr website, I invite you to join the community so you don’t miss any of our upcoming podcast. You can also subscribe to the podcast on itunes and if you haven’t done so already, I highly recommend you get your customized skin [email protected]. It’s free. Takes just a few moments and you’ll get unique information about what your skin is trying to tell you about your health. Just go to theskinquiz.com. Also, I invite you to join me on social, on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, Youtube, Pinterest, and join the conversation and I’ll see you next time on this product or podcast.