How Hormones Influence Skin Health with Naomi Judge

Dr. Cates: Hi there. I’m Dr Trevor Cates. Welcome to The Spa Dr. Podcast on today’s podcast we’re talking about how hormones influence your skin health. My guest is Naomi judge who has a bachelor’s degree in health science and is a nutritionist, blogger and author in Sydney, Australia. Naomi is known in Australia for her expertise in supporting women who are frustrated, fed up and struggling with unresolved hormonal health problems. Naomi helps these women connect the dots between their health, happiness and hormones, enabling them to live a life of optimal vibrancy, which she calls your new normal. And I know it’s nice to have different perspective on on women’s health and hormones and it’s nice to see how things might be a little bit different in Australia and how a practitioner there uses different wording and different slightly different approach. But there’s a lot of similarity and some of the things that we’d hear me talking about as far as hormonal balance. And on today’s podcast we discuss how hormones such as progesterone, estrogen, and testosterone impact our skin as women. And Naomi shares her top tips for balancing hormones through diet and lifestyle. So please enjoy this interview.

Dr. Cates: Naomi it’s so great to have you on The Spa Dr. Podcast. Welcome.

Naomi Judge: Oh, thank you. So great to be here.

Dr. Cates: Yeah. So today we’re talking about hormones and how they show up on the skin and it’s specifically sex hormones, estrogen, progesterone, testosterone. So you see certain things when you’re working with your clients, you’re seeing certain patterns that show up on the skin, right?

Naomi Judge: That’s right. And it’s, it’s quite interesting cause they are these patterns and they’re quite like for some women they can be cyclic and that’s what could make it confusing. I mean, just all sorts of patterns. Like, you know, puffiness on the face, blackheads, even acne coming up, the skin, eczema, psoriasis, the skin looking dry. This can happen. It doesn’t necessarily have to be there all the time. It can happen through the menstrual cycle, which is, which is quite fascinating.

Dr. Cates: Yeah, absolutely. So let’s break it down by hormone. So let’s talk about progesterone and how that plays a role.

Naomi Judge: Yes. Progesterone, I mean, in terms of progesterone, it helps, it helps you to feel good. It’s a female sex hormone. It regulates your ovulation. So, when you’re mid cycle and you ovulate the egg, the body then produces progesterone through that kind of second half of your cycle called the luteal phase. And as progesterone rises, and estrogen at that time, but progesterone helps make your skin feel kind of that more subtle. Like it’s, I’m a little bit, you know, it looks, it looks brighter, a little bit like a pregnant lady, you know, when, when women are pregnant, they kind of had that brightness, you know, and what’s interesting I find fascinating is just that kind of brightness in the eyes as well. So everything kind of brightens up, gets gets nice and moist. Progesterone helps us set aside blood everywhere as well. And if that’s not happening during that kind of later half of the phase, all sorts of things can happen. And, and one of the things that progesterone is responsible for is it does regulate our dosterone, which helps to regulate the fluid in and out of the cells. And one of the things I find, progesterone is responsible for if it’s too low, particularly in that second half of the cycle is that sort of water retention and puffiness, you know, waking up in the morning and having the puffy eyes or the puffy face. And I see that’s one sign of that low progesterone. But if progesterone is going well, the hair will feel good during that phase, the skin will feel good, you’ll feel nice and relaxed and, and just that kind of calm energy.

Dr. Cates: Right. And so, I mean, progesterone is one of the things, like you said, it can change and the cycle, it also changes as we get older too. As we age, as women, it will start to go down, especially in relationship to estrogen. A lot of the symptoms that early pre sort of premenopausal kind of symptoms come from that drop in progesterone in relationship to estrogen. Right?

Naomi Judge: Oh, that’s so right. I mean progesterone, it’s, it’s a very sensitive hormone and I do a lot of tests on my clients and it’s very rare that I see progesterone too high or in that optimal range. I mean, I would say 2% of my clients have really high progesterone and that’s maybe because they’ve got polycystic ovarian syndrome or something going on. But, with the progesterone, it’s so sensitive, it’s so sensitive to insulin and sugars. So with high insulin and hyperinsulinemia where we can’t control our blood sugar, progesterone tends to funnel into testosterone. So then you have that more testosterone, which funnels into estrogen, and then estrogen rises. Or as we go through life and we’re not managing our stress levels, day to day stress levels, just little things or we’ve got chronic illness or inflammation. What progesterone can do is it can kind of funnel down into cortisol. So we end up, a-s we age, not only the natural aging of progesterone, progesterone, under-functioning, but we end up with this crazy balance of high estrogen and then maybe even high cortisol as well.

Dr. Cates: Yeah. And it’s really because it’s all a balance and the way that they work in relationship to each other, to each other. So it’s more like a relatively high come on compared to what, and you know, what progesterone is and how those kind of changes. And it’s a bit complicated and certainly can vary from one woman to the other. And a lot of that has to do with genetics and then also lifestyle. So we would definitely want to talk about what we could do to kind of help balance our hormones. But before we do that, what are some of the signs? I mean, I would say, if we’re looking at that more common thing of, you know, low progesterone in relationship to estrogen, what are some of the signs of, of that imbalance with estrogen?

Naomi Judge: Yeah, so with, with the elevated, estrogen, you’ll see, um, again, you might see flare ups through the cycle. So one of the things I see is that dryness and the eczema in particular. So, estrogen can be inflammatory and it can kind of open up the blood vessels, the small blood vessels on the skin. So you might see more of a redness in the face and flareups with eczema. And another thing that I see is particularly if you’ve got low minerals, low zinc or low selenium or high insulin. What you might also see is the estrogen converting to testosterone as well. So you’ve got this crazy thing going on. Then estrogen’s converting to testosterone and so you’re getting the maybe black heads and you’re getting acne and conditions like that with estrogen. Now typically, with estrogen you’ll get that heavy, painful periods you might get in that second phase of your cycle. In the luteal phase you might get more anxiety. You might get things like hair loss and also that PMT as well. You know where you get irritated, quick to anger because you haven’t got that progesterone to buffer you and kind of calm you down. And progesterone helps with the Serotonin as well. So a lot of women might get the depression as well in the second half of that cycle as well as the physical skin signs.

Dr. Cates: Okay. And then things like, like rosacea or some redness and irritation and things like that on the skin. What about signs like that?

Naomi Judge: Yeah, so redness is a big one and actually that’s one that I had a lot from a young age. So very, very naive. You know, naturally I’ve got kind of open veins on my cheeks anyway, but I was always very, very red and it wasn’t until I started to balance my hormones in my mid teens later than that, that my skin kind of calmed down a little bit. So, estrogen tends to open up the veins on the skin and so blood will rush out. And not only that it will cause a little bit of inflammation on the skin. So rosacea is one of those conditions where you have that inflammation and also it can turn into bacterial. What’s interesting as well with the redness and the rosacea is estrogen, estrogen can feed bacteria and also fungi like Candida. And so if your condition is related to also more bacteria in the gut or Candida that will come out on the skin as well. So you might see more little pustules and, and more spots. But what’s interesting is, is what I’ve noticed with my clients is things like rosacea and the redness will be cyclic. So sometimes they’ll feel fine through the month and then they’ll notice for a few days it gets a lot worse as that estrogen is rising and the progesterone doesn’t kind of buffer it. They get that more inflammation on the skin with the redness, the flushing, the Rosacea, that permeability of the veins also increases. So you get that kind of, you can get that blood leakage as well.

Dr. Cates: Right. And so, and then the converse of that is when estrogen goes low, then we have a decrease and that vascular chirp blood, the blood flow. And so then we start to see, as you know, as women get closer to menopause and beyond, there is a tendency to look more pale, right? Because of that decreased blood flow. So things like rosacea may not be as bad. Uh, but then there might be a feeling like, oh my skin looks more dull or just not as, you don’t have that flush look that I used to have when I was younger as what some people will say. Would you agree?

Naomi Judge: Yeah, I would totally agree with that. And it, and it’s interesting, you can see it through your lifespan. So you know, you’re perimenopause or menopause, but again, you can see it through your cycle. And even I see that as well. So as soon as my period comes and my hormones drop out, I can just feel the skin. It’s that kind of dullness and even the texture of the skin because the estrogen and progesterone both kind of help with the fibroblasts. And the collagen tissue in the skin, you know, to help just to pump it up. And I notice even that this is crazy, but even that changes when my hormones drop out a little bit, join my menstrual cycle, so just pale and you wake up in the morning and you just think my skin, it looks less, it doesn’t pop back, you know, pop back into place and then later on in the cycle we are like wow, my skin is amazing. It’s just, it’s, it’s, I find it fascinating how it can change so quickly, but definitely that perimenopause menopause will state whether the hormones are lowering your notice that a lot more there. And I think that what’s going on in your 20s and thirties is kind of a warning sign as to what your skin will look like, you know, later on in your late forties, fifties, sixties

Dr. Cates: that’s a really good point. And I think a lot of people aren’t as observant as you are. Most people notice that. But because you work with people in this and you, you have a, a deeper understanding of hormones then you kind of know what to look for. So it’s interesting for people listening, watching, I would say, you know, start paying attention to this and see if you notice changes for yourself. And certainly there are things that we could do. The earlier we start to balance our hormones, the better. It’s never too late. Even if you’re already past menopause and you’re trying to figure out what more you could do, it’s never too late. But the earlier you start, the better it is. Right? So the key here that we’re talking about is balance. So just because, if your estrogen is low, for example, doesn’t mean you should go on estrogen. Um, it means that you want to create balances that you want to help support your body in making its own homeostasis of wherever you are in your life, the different stages of life and phases of your cycle and your age, that you’re optimizing your body, right to create that balance.

Naomi Judge: Couldn’t have said it better. That’s exactly right. It’s that balance. And I think we get caught up when we learn things, you know, oh, more is more is better kind of thing. And less is less is better if it is bad. But there is that beautiful balance and we need estrogen, we need progesterone and we need testosterone. But in that wonderful balance where it just works for us.

Dr. Cates: Right. And then with testosterone, one of the things that I noticed is that with testosterone decreasing after menopause or around menopause is that testosterone helps us maintain our muscle. So when we lose muscle throughout our body, including our face, that’s one part where we’ll notice more of the loose skin, because there’s less of the muscles to really to hold that up. Is that, do you notice that as well?

Naomi Judge: Yeah, that’s actually a really good point. The testosterone does help with that because that totally helps with the muscle and most likely, I would say it helps with the connected tissue as well. There is something there where it helps, I know estrogen does, but I suspect testosterone helps with that connective tissue. I know genetically in my family the women have high testosterone and one of the things I’ve noticed is nobody, no matter what age has cellulite. So it’s kind of a genetic thing. No cellulite, even though there is that estrogen dominance, the testosterone seems to be a protective, I think it protects against cellulite because it keeps muscle fibers there, but also the connective tissue.

Dr. Cates: Right. And then on the flip side of that, if you have high androgens including testosterone, then you might be more prone to, to breaking out, especially cystic acne or you know, more of those, the acne issues, oily skin and large pores, blackheads, whiteheads, those sorts of things.

Naomi Judge: Oh, totally. I mean that’s one thing that I get with that high testosterone. I’m lucky that I’ve never had acne, but I get kind of acne’s cousin, which is a little bit of congestion and the blackheads just here and that’s due to that, that kind of elevated testosterone. But women will notice that on the cheeks in the beard area particularly if the estrogen is converting to testosterone. And another thing I’ve noticed recently with women with higher testosterone and lower estrogen is the graying. In this, there’s a process called aromatase where the testosterone gets converted to estrogen and that happens premenopause and postmenopause so that we can continue to make estrogen. So I’ve noticed that women start graying here where there’s a lot of those testosterone, aromatase receptors as well.

Dr. Cates: Hmm. Okay. And so when it comes to balancing hormones do just to that, you know, it comes to lifestyle and the different ways that we want to balance hormones starting again, we start as early as possible. Right. What are some of the big things that you’ve noticed with your clients that you felt have helped the most?

Naomi Judge: Okay, so the first thing is just, I mean it can be so complex and obviously there’s an array of different things you can do to balance, but there are simple things that everybody can, can do just from day to day. So one is simple cleansing techniques. So what tends to happen is, particularly with estrogen dominance, we tend to kind of get that back up of estrogen, our gallbladder, our liver, and our bowel just get a little bit slow in terms of detoxing estrogen. So just simple techniques like dry skin brushing to help with the lymphatic system to help remove estrogen and muck from the lymphatics. And that will help. Another is actually doing things like infrared saunas. Having said that, I did hear the other day and I haven’t looked at studies, I don’t know if you’ve seen any studies. I heard someone say on a podcast, infrared saunas may affect the connective tissue. Now I need to have a look at that study and just see what might be going on. So I’m not sure, but saunas are very good. So I love that kind of physical detoxifying. And then of course just having the Greens. So having your green juices, and if you’ve got any thyroid problems or issues with, um, your sulfur rich vegetables, like your Broccoli, because having about a cup of those a day cooked in a soup is very good to detox estrogen if you’ve got any problems having those and you can’t eat those because they’ll get you a bit windy or you’ve got some thyroid issues. You could do a supplement like sulforaphane and that’s beautiful at helping the body detoxify. So that’s wonderful. And then also when we’re looking at detoxifying, um, helping the gallbladder, so the gallbladder tends to hold onto a lot of the fat soluble toxins, including estrogen. And what I’ve noticed is women with gallbladder issues or sludgy bile or a slow detoxifying gallbladder, they tend to get more moles on the skin, maybe more melasma and things like that. So what I found helps a gallbladder are two things. So lemon in water or a little bit of apple cider vinegar and water every day on an empty tummy in the morning. And that helps you the acetic acid in the apple cider vinegar with the citric acid in the lemon, helps to kind of loosen the bile. And I’ve noticed how doing that, it does brighten the skin up. You can notice after about a week, it helps with the skin. So detoxifying is very, very important.

Dr. Cates: Okay. Well yeah, certainly in part of detoxification, reducing our exposure to hormone disrupting chemicals in personal care products and then food and water and all of that. So of course, right? Reducing your overall exposure.

Naomi Judge: Exactly. Reducing the load. I mean, plastics is a big one, so just slowly reducing plastics, even just making small baby steps. So if you’re drinking from a plastic bottle, just swap it to glass. Have a look at, you know, your cookware and what the food goes in, put it in glass and just swapping things out like that. And it does make a huge difference. So that is the first one. And then the second one is diet in terms of getting a diet that stabilizes you through the day. So a diet that stabilizes your blood sugar because when blood sugar fluctuates, what that will do is it will change the way the hormones funnel down. So instead of them funneling, nice and balanced into progesterone, a bit of testosterone and a bit of estrogen. And of course the right estrogens. What happens when we don’t have a balanced diet is that our hormones go up and down. Now, some diets, ketogenic diets, suit people, some people are Vegan Diet, some people fasting, all those suit people. But what I advise women to do first this is really important, is just stabilize your diet first. So breakfast, lunch, and dinner. A nice blend of macronutrients. So that’s your protein, your fat, your carbohydrate in forms of sweet potato, in forms of a little bit, bit of Basmati rice, maybe legumes if you can tolerate them. But don’t go full on into a diet unless you’ve stabilized your diet first. And you know, you stabilized your blood sugar because if you start fasting or you start adding heaps and heaps of fat, you could then get a little bit more of a hormone problem. And what I’ve noticed say with fat is women that tend to be estrogen dominant. Um, when you start loading a body up with tons and tons of fat, it just starts to synthesize more estrogen. So you need to get to the root cause and balance your diet first. So that’s the second thing, balancing your diet with beautiful macronutrients.

Dr. Cates: Yeah. And that’s great. And then of course on the flip side of that, I mean, I feel like the low fat diet phase is kind of on its way out, but I still like, or maybe technically I would consider it’s out, but there’s still some people that, that believe that, you know, you want to cut back on fat. And then, of course we want to make sure we’re eating good fats and I want to make sure people understand that hormones come from cholesterol. And so we need our good fats to help make hormones. So that’s just when I say, well I know you were talking about high fat, but on the other side of that, you don’t want to be low fat either. So it’s important to find that balance.

Naomi Judge: Oh, exactly. And I mean we’ve got this whole generation of women really, you know, in their sixties, seventies and eighties that unfortunately went through the low fat fad. And so there’s brain issues as low cholesterol. And if you’ve got, like you said, if you’ve got no cholesterol, you won’t have the hormone. So osteoporosis, dementia, outsiders, it’s a whole a whole new thing. But hopefully, like you said, that slowly changing and women know that, you know, introducing avocado, a little bit of ghee, a little bit of butter, some cold pressed organic olive oil, a little bit of avocado oil. Those beautiful fats, even coconut oil for some, can help with the hormones and just general health and skin as well.

Dr. Cates: Yeah, absolutely.

Naomi Judge: So then fiber, fiber is really important and fiber can be difficult to get if you’re following a strict diet. So if you’re following ketogenic or if you’re following certain diets, sometimes I think we forget about fiber, but getting fiber from our fruits and vegetables. So you know, not having too much fruit, you just want to, you know, if you’re, if you like having a fruit, I do like coming to serve of fruit a day. What I notice when I didn’t have my fruit was I wasn’t getting the antioxidants and those minerals from fruits. So I have about a serving of fruit a day, um, and vegetables. So you want to be getting, you know, anything from four to nine cups of vegetables a day. That seems a little bit accesses when the reason I say four is, cause if I say nine, I think some people will go, what? How can I get that in? But you know, there are clever ways you can get it in. You know, having big leafy Greens, Salads, having blended soups. You know, once you blend the soup, you’ve got Broccoli or you’ve got Zucchini in there and you blend it up. That’s a ton of vegetables. And then of course we’ve got kind of green smoothers or vegetables, smoothies. So there’s ways to get it in. So just start from where you are. Don’t suddenly freak out big. I have one cup a day now I’ve got to have nine. Just get your one cup, go to two, go to three and just slowly increase it. And if you do have any issues with constipation, you know, cook your vegetables. Cause sometimes the, the extra fiber can be a little bit tough, just lightly do it. Don’t go from one to nine tomorrow.

Dr. Cates: That’s a good tip. Um, and I think too is another, I think a lot of times people get used to eating the same foods over and over again. Right? And, and I like to encourage people to try different, different vegetables. If nine seems like a lot, well it doesn’t have to be all nine of the same, please mix it up some. So it’s not just like nine servings of spinach. Mix it up. And, and also what we, what we have learned about the gut microbiome is when you eat a diverse variety of fruits and vegetables and actually can improve your gut microbiome. So having a diverse group. And so when you said nine, a lot of people thinking can I gotta eat like five servings of celery and …

Naomi Judge: Exactly. Yeah. Mix it up, mix it up. I mean I’m loving and I’m just, whatever’s in season. I mean at the moment I’m loving asparagus, it is in season over here and asparagus is full of glutothione and that’s wonderful for detoxifying the liver and supporting the gut. So just kind of goes what’s in season exactly like you said, go to the markets and, and just see things you’re not sure what they are, pick them up and experiment and play with these foods. Cause it’s actually, it’s really fun. I find it relaxing at the end of the day. I mean not for everybody if you’ve got a huge family, but it’s fun to play around with different vegetables.

Dr. Cates: Yeah. And I find that going to the farmer’s markets. Great. And I take my kids with me, they’re a little bit older now, but especially when they were younger, when they see where they’re coming from, they see all the different variety. I think it’s great education and a sense of creativity and wanting to try something new.

Naomi Judge: Oh, exactly. I love it. So we talked about, okay, so we talked about fiber, we talked about macronutrient cleansing. And then number four is, earlier I talked about kind of distress levels. So in terms of when you, when we get stressed, our body does crazy things. I mean not only does the cortisol affect our skin so it can actually break down the collagen tissue. So we’re more likely to get those kinds of fine lines. So that’s one thing that’s happened. Also, the cortisol can affect the fluid balance in our body as well. So we can get puffy or we can lose muscle fiber, lose muscle mass. So we really need to manage that. And you can manage that. You know, the best ways, and I know everyone says this, I know it’s what everyone’s talking about at the moment. And it can be a little bit boring for people, but so many people don’t do it as meditation, you know, doing that meditation, resetting each day, even doing the mindfulness through the day. And what I hear from a lot of my clients is I don’t have time to meditate. I hate meditating, I can’t meditate. I find it stressful. And those are the people that need it. They need it. And so I just try and say, just do a little bit every day just say I’m going to do three minutes, I’m going to do 10 minutes, I’m going to do this every day. And again, it’s like going to the gym. It’s just exercising your mind. It’s training your brain to be able to do that. And you don’t have to sit still. It’s not about not thinking and it’s not about having a blank brain for 10 minutes. And that if you’ve thought you failed, it’s actually the thinking is part of it. So you think, then you notice your thinking and then you just try and stop that thought. And so you don’t have to have this blank brain. I think a lot of people think that that’s what it’s about.

Dr. Cates: Yeah. No, that’s, that’s great. Um, and I think people should, like, just like you said about the vegetables go into it easy, don’t try and do an hour long meditation when you first get started to start with some simple breathwork, even gratitude. And you know, there are walking meditations too. If you don’t sit still, well you can actually walk and just walk in silence and just kind of take in the sounds around you and just go on a nice peaceful walk. That’s a form of meditation too.

Naomi Judge: Oh, I absolutely love that. Yeah. Walking Meditation is Great. And just starting off with an app. I think that’s a good way to do. And just mindfulness as well.

Dr. Cates: Do you have any favorite apps?

Naomi Judge: So I use, I actually love, waking up at the moment by Sam Harris because he, he goes into it and he describes it. You don’t have to not be, you can think it’s all about thinking. So his is great. And then there’s some other ones, you know, like Buddify and Calm and Headspace, all of those work really well. And they start off very small, you know, a couple of minutes and go up to 10. Some go up to 20 minutes. But yeah, I’m loving that waking up app at the moment. I do like that.

Dr. Cates: Well that’s great. Yeah, that’s fantastic.

Naomi Judge: And then, and then one of the most obvious ones, but I’m not sure everyone’s doing it, is sleep, sleep, sleep does balance your hormone. It’s, it, it helps to balance the estrogen along with the cortisol along with the Melatonin and get some all in Nice, um, you know, harmony for your body. And if we’re not sleeping or we’re having really late nights, so we’re waking up multiple times during the night, that not only increases the cortisol and decreases the Melatonin, but also that plays havoc with the estrogen and progesterone levels as well. So it’s really important. And I know I have seen some studies that women who don’t get, you know, have interrupted sleep, but also sleep where there’s too much light. So synthetic light, artificial light coming through the window, that is a risk factor for breast cancer as well. So there is that connection. So making sure you’ve got a dark room wear an eye mask, if you can, try and have it at, you know, have a window open if you can, so you’ve got that nice fresh air or temperature or have an air filtration system in the bedroom. So just make it as lovely as possible to sleep and try and get, try and be in bed, you know, if you’re at six, go to seven or eight hours if you can, if not, you know, try at least trying to get that six hours is really important. And I’ve actually just discovered an app that I’ve been playing around with. I don’t know if you’ve seen it, called sonic sleep. And of course have your phones on flight mode because EMF and Wifi can disrupt your sleep. So actually you’ve got everything turned off and have your router set to a timer as well in the house. So that turns off at night. So you’ve got the, you’ve got the house nice for you and the kids and everything’s turned off, but turn your phone to flight mode, but sonic sleep has this app and it plays this kind of white noise and then it changes it through the night. So you kind of get into a deeper sleep. And I tell you, I’ve been using that and I’ve been loving it. It’s been working nicely for me.

Dr. Cates: Nice. Very nice. I like, and I think that’s a great, um, what you mentioned about turning it into, you called it flight mode is the airplane flight mode, airplane mode. I think that’s an easy little thing if you are using your phone for some of the apps. But they don’t necessarily need to be connected to the Wifi. And just doing that alone is gonna help with that. Those are great tips and fantastic. Any, anything else?

Naomi Judge: That’s it. I mean those are, those are good, good place to get started. And just the start, this starts that balancing and you know, doing that for even just four to six weeks, you start to notice that difference, and the thing that you might see as well. At the end, with your next cycle, if you start to do this and remove kind of the inflammatory foods, you notice that you’re less than your next period. You know, it’s not as heavy. It’s not as clotting, it’s not as painful. So you start to notice those symptoms improve as well.

Dr. Cates: Absolutely. I really think that, when you start with the foundation of, like you’re talking about when you’re making these, these, um, adjustments and your diet and your stress management, all of that really does create this great foundation for your hormones to get into a balanced state. And then if you need additional support, if that’s not enough, then you can work with different practitioners that functional medicine or naturopathic physicians that focus on helping you with with, with balancing hormones and, and ticking up a notch with supplements and maybe biogenical hormones. So. Well thank you so much for your interview today. Tell everybody where they can find out more about you

Naomi Judge: so they can hop onto my website at naomijudge.com or if they’re loving videos, my youtube channel at Naomi judge and also Facebook, naturopath Naomi. So there’s a ton of information on their free videos and I and I go through everything in a lot of details they can find me there.

Dr. Cates: Okay, great. Well thanks Naomi for coming on today.

Naomi Judge: Thanks so much. It was a pleasure being here.

Dr. Cates: I hope you enjoyed this interview today with Naomi and to learn more about her, you can go to TheSpaDr.com, go to the podcast page with her interview and you’ll find all the information and links there in the show notes. And while you’re there at TheSpaDr.com, I encourage you to join our community so you don’t miss any of our upcoming shows. And if you haven’t already taken the skin quiz, it’s a great way to find out what messages your skin is trying to tell you about your health, including hormonal imbalances. So just go to theskinquiz.com it’s a free online quiz and gives you great information on some tips, valuable tools to help you with balancing your hormones and other root causes to help you have healthy skin. It’s at theskinquiz.com also, I invite you to join me on social media at the spa doctor is a Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Pinterest, and Youtube. So you can join the conversation there and I’ll see you next time on the spot. Doctor podcast