Lyme, Mold and Depression with Dr. Jaquel Patterson

Transcript of Lyme, Mold and Depression

Dr. Cates: Hi there. I’m dr Trevor Cates. Welcome to The Spa Dr. Podcast. On today’s podcast, we’re talking about what might seem like an unlikely root cause of depression, anxiety, that’s Lyme disease, mold, toxicity, and other triggers that lead to imbalances in the immune system. You’ll need to listen to today’s interview to hear how it all ties together, but I’m excited about today’s guest because she’s super smart and she’s currently leading the naturopathic profession as the president of the American association of naturopathic physicians. My guest is dr Jaquel Patterson and her naturopathic medicine practice. She focuses on conditions like Lyme disease, autoimmune conditions, asthma and allergies, pans, pandas, chronic fatigue, and anxiety and depression. Dr. Patterson had a passion for alternative medicine at an early age, coming from a mixed heritage, exposed her to different healing practices that didn’t always reflect what she was being taught in the classroom, and she wanted to learn more.

Dr. Cates: As a child, Dr. Patterson saw her mother’s struggle with lupus and rheumatoid arthritis and notice many unmet needs with conventional medical treatments that instilled in her desire and hope for a different, more holistic way to provide care. After completing her undergraduate degree at Cornell university, she later went on to earn her doctoral degree at the university of Bridgeport, college of naturopathic medicine and while there she completed over 1300 clinical hours and an intern at Yale Griffin prevention research center. Since then, she has pursued a path of medicine with the core of naturopathic tenets, treat the whole person and find the underlying cause of disease. At the beginning of today’s interview, Dr Jaquel shares what is like to be the president of the AANP and why it’s such an important time for access to safe and effective natural medicine and then we go on to discuss the main topic for today, Lyme, mold and depression. I think you’ll find it really interesting how it all ties together. Instead of looking at the body as isolated organs, it’s important to know how they all work together. We talk about this and how to address the root cause, restore balance for your physical, mental, and emotional wellbeing. So please enjoy this interview.

Dr. Cates: Jaquel, it’s so great to have you on The Spa Dr. Podcast. Welcome.

Dr. Patterson: Hi. Thank you so much for having me.

Dr. Cates: So you are a busy woman, you are president of the American association of naturopathic physicians and you’re in clinical practice. You have a lot going on. So first of all, let’s talk about, and I know we’ve got a lot to you we want to talk about today and as regards to health and wellness, but also your, your S your been such a great leader for the profession. So I appreciate your, your hard work and that. How’s it been being president of the American Association of Naturopathic physicians?

Dr. Patterson: Oh, it’s been quite busy as you said. And this is actually in my last year as I end in 2019 I was a president for from 2017 to 2019 and I’ve been on the board for over six years, which I can’t believe I remember when I first was on the board. Knowing people that were on for that long, I couldn’t imagine that. But time really flies by and it’s, it’s really exciting. It continues to excitement to be able to see, you know, more states licensed and a lot of progression just in our profession in general, and to be just part of that. So I’m continued to be excited for the next level of leadership and I hope some of the pieces that we actually definitely have developed in terms of a lot of structural changes will stay throughout.

Dr. Cates: Yeah. There’s been so much change in that profession since you’ve been on the board. And since I was, so I graduated from school, what was it, 19 years ago and I just realized that it’s been 15 years since I was appointed by Former Governor Schwarzenegger’s naturopathic advisory council. I ran across a newspaper clipping like a public announcement in Santa Barbara, you know, that that happened. I can’t believe it’s been 15 years since health and naturopathic doctors were licensed in California. And that, that’s why I was appointed by Schwarzenegger’s Naturopathic Advisory Council because it was the law got passed while I was there and what was involved in the lobbying effort. So there’s so much that’s happened and our profession, and I know it might be shocking for people to hear that physicians, the, the scope of practice is different from state to state. So that’s a lot of efforts of the AANP American Association of Naturopathic Physicians is getting the word out so that we can, so people understand the difference between someone who has attended a four year accredited naturopathic medical school versus someone who calls himself a naturopath that maybe received some online training. So that’s, it’s been a challenge for our profession. Right?

Dr. Patterson: Yeah. So, and there’s still so much more to go. You know, we were looking still to having over half of the state’s license and hoping that that will, you know, push the trajectory and pushed the tipping point over. And another piece that we’re really working on is being included in things like Medicare. So that we have more of that, that national reach. So we’re chugging along, we’ve had many States licensed in the last few years and I know that, that, um, that that will continue. And I’m just, I’m honored to still be the president because you see what the people kind of before us did and how much of a time commitment. I’m an amazing passion. They still have that, you know, just being able to do it something in my a little amount really. It’s really, you know, meaningful for me. So I’m, there’s, there is definitely a lot of support that continues to be needed as we’re trying to get all the licensed state, all the States license. And I’m hoping that happens in the next five years.

Dr. Cates: Right. And so what that means for everybody listening is that each state has regulations and a licensure that’s available for different professions. And so currently not every state has a license available for Naturopathic Physicians. So like in the state of Utah where I am, we have a great scope of practice, a license available for niche by like doctors. So the public is, knows if someone is a licensed naturopathic physician. So we can practice as primary care doctors and we have certain prescriptive rights and, but you know, of course our focus is more of an integrative holistic approach. But in other States where there is no license available, then nature pathic doctors have to practice differently and they can’t practice to their full scope. So that’s why it’s so important for, for all States to be licensed so that the public then knows that everybody knows if someone is more of like a health coach or someone is a licensed naturopathic doctor who could do physical exams, can order lab work, can diagnose and treat disease with an integrative approach. Right. So yeah, it’s a lot safer,

Dr. Patterson: much safer. And so to the public at large. And so I had the experience of practice of working in both States, you know, in New Jersey as a consultant, since it’s an unlicensed state. And then in Connecticut, which is a licensed state and it just, it really is the benefit of the public at large if the state is licensed because we can do many of those things that you mentioned in terms of blood work, you know, collaborating with other doctors. Also just the, the level of um, uh, knowledge and skill set and knowing, um, being able to identify, you know, like you had mentioned the root cause of the condition also when, when to refer out and when, you know, maybe a higher level of intervention is needed. So I think it’s, um, it’s something that we’re really skilled at doing and also protects the safety and PR the public because they’re just aware of those who are actually licensed and trained to do so.

Dr. Cates: And so much of this is education because if people understand what we’re trying to do and what we’re trained to do, then it’s going to be easier for us to continue to get licensed in all States. That we’re not trying to take the place of a medical doctor, that we have a place within the medical system and we know where, what are our place is, what our training is, our scope is. Um, but we, we are, Oh, we truly are educated and this integrative approach because we’re trained in anatomy, physiology, pharmacology, but also botanical medicine and nutrition. We get so much comprehensive training both in classroom as well as in a clinical setting on these things. So because the public really wants to know about supplements and diet and food and, and, and conventional medical schools there is, they are not trained. That’s not, the specialty isn’t national medicine. So it’s important for, I think, for people to understand how well we’re trained and how we fit into, into the medical model and that getting nature by the doctor’s license and aisle seats. It protects the public and it, and it’s a great, it’s a great way to kind of round out the medical system.

Dr. Patterson: Yes. And I, I feel like I’ve created it in a microcosm, in my medical practice because I have six doctors in our practice and four of them are naturopathic doctors, but we also have an internist and a physical therapist who’s also nutritionist. So it’s been so helpful having that level of collaboration. And we also work with, you know, providers and specialties in the area have a really strong relationship so that there is that back and forth between patients. So it’s important I think to have all parts of care. And the collaboration is really key to that. I think that’s really, but, you know, next wave of medicine, obviously alternative medicine is one is one of the big pieces. But how we collaborate across care to also save costs, you know, in terms of for the patients as well. So, and the healthcare system in general.

Dr. Cates: Yeah. I have so many people ask me that they want to find a naturopathic doctor in their state and they can’t find somebody. So this is what’s going to help is that a lot of news, probably the doctors won’t go to States that aren’t licensed because unless they in, unless they have family there and they have to have to go there, they typically choose the States that are licensed. So then that makes naturopathic medicine not available in unlicensed States at least in, you know, the to the full scope that we’re trained to, to do and provide. So I’m, I’m so glad that you’re doing this work. Um, can you just explain for people who aren’t used to or truly understand nature about naturopathic medicine, you explain a little bit about the training that naturopathic doctors have.

Dr. Patterson: Yeah. So we go through post bachelor, it’s a four year doctoral medical training program and we take all of the same, you know, basic sciences, anatomy, physiology, biochemistry, and we also take, you know, physiology pathology. But in the last two years, we actually have two licensing examinations and you have to pass those licensing examinations in order to practice in a license state. So a lot of people, you know, aren’t aware of that. The last two years, we’re really focused more on our clinical, uh, particularity and we all, we all sort of trained in pharmacology. So a lot of people don’t know that, that we’re really experts in the drug herb interaction and also knowing that level of care and yet when the higher level care is needed as well. So we have, you know, two years on our last two years where we’re doing clinical hours and then also many graduates also do also are able to do residency. So we take those two license examinations to show competency. Um, all the, uh, basically incoming class have to take all the pre-medical requirements in order to actually start, um, the medical program. Um, there are limited schools but they’re lace, you know, accredited schools, um, by the department of education, um, in order for people to, you know, be able to attend those schools and become licensed doctors as well.

Dr. Cates: Yeah. And so those schools are best university national, university of natural medicine, Southwest college of naturopathic medicine. What are the other schools?

Dr. Patterson: University of Bridgeport. And then there’s also schools in Canada as well. So, but the training in terms of the science class training is commensurate with really any traditional or conventional medical program. And, I think yes, people aren’t aware of how extensive our level of training is. It’s not a program that we’re, you know, completing a lot of the classwork online and not having experience, um, face to face with patients the last two years. There are what they call preceptorships where students actually will precept out with doctors in the community, but also they have clinical shifts with overseeing, doctors of NDU, sometimes MDs or DOs, you know, different people, but typically MDs where they get to kind of firsthand experience in terms of clinical clinically and how to actually use the approaches and the medicine and philosophy that we were trained to do.

Dr. Cates: Yeah. Great. And I think it’s important for people to realize that when you’re looking for a naturopathic doctor online, you want to look for someone who has attended one of these accredited or a year in person nature by like medical schools not a correspondence program, that they did their course online. If they did not get their degree from one of these accredited schools, then they do not have the same level of training. And so they’re not able to diagnose and treat disease, they are not able to practice as primary care doctors as the type of doctors that we’re talking about. Because there is, there are a lot of people out there calling themselves naturopathic doctors that don’t have this training. So it’s important to understand the difference and do a little bit of education

Dr. Patterson: and that’s a good differentiator that diagnosis and treat. We do have that ability to do that licensed MD. So that’s a piece, you know, you should look into to any and doctor that you are looking to see. Do they have that ability to diagnose and treat? And unfortunately we can’t do that in unlicensed States. And that’s what we’re looking to have by having these States licensed.

Dr. Cates: Okay. So before we move into talking about something different, um, I told people where, what are the best places where they can go to get information on understanding maybe if they want to be, you know, get involved in helping with licensure efforts or they want to learn more about naturopathic medicine and doctors.

Dr. Patterson: Yeah. So there’s two primary resources. So we have the American association of naturopathic physicians, which I’m currently the president for and the website for that is naturopathic.org and so if you’re looking to search in the directory four, I’m a naturopathic physician, um, to be able to see that would be one a source. The other place for just general FAQ is and information, in collaboration that we have is what’s called institute for natural medicine. And there’s a lot of patient education information as well located on that website, forgetting at the top of my head, the name of the URL for that website. I’m sure you may end go better than that

Dr. Cates: Yeah, it’s for natural medicine, right? Yes, yes. So, we’ll put those links up in the show notes so people can get to those easily. And also where the naturopathic medical schools are also, I think.

Dr. Patterson: Oh yes, yes. The American Academy for naturopathic medical schools, which is AANMC.Org. So if there are, if anybody listening in is interested actually in pursuing the field, there’s information there, but also it’s great because they discuss even at more length the education so you can get information about what is all the coursework, you know, credit hours and things like that as well.

Dr. Cates: Okay. Awesome. All right. Thanks for covering that because I get so many questions from people about how do I find a naturopathic doctor and how do I know if it’s a real nature by the doctor and why isn’t there a naturopathic doctor in my state? Why doesn’t health insurance cover it? I mean like some of the stuff that you’re working on is so, um, more, you know, when, when doctors can be licensed as day, then there’s more chance that health insurance can him cover visits to naturopathic doctors.

Dr. Patterson: And it is challenging, challenging in the Google world in terms of being able to find that and knowing if it’s a reputable source. So those three organizations that you just mentioned are all good resources for that.

Dr. Cates: Awesome. Thank you. Okay, so now we’re going to shift gears and we’re going to talk about, we’re going to talk about depression and some surprising root causes behind but don’t behind depression. And so you were talking to me telling me that, that you found some really interesting correlations in your practice and you’ve had some interesting clinical experience that I wanted you to come on and talk to people about. Because depression is we, we, we all know how, how common it is today and how many people are struggling with it and are being put on antidepressants and those aren’t always the best solution for people. And if we can find the root cause and address that people are going to be, it’s going to be so much easier to help alleviate the depression and also address and prevent other health problems. Right?

Dr. Patterson: Yes, yes. And, and my, so in my practice, I’m with a medical practice in Fairfield, Connecticut. And probably around I’d say 60 to 70% of our patients have Lyme disease and other tick borne infections. The other thing is allergies and the other piece is also pans and pandas, which is related more for, you know, childhood health. And so I, one of the pieces that I’ve, I’ve noticed in correlation, especially with my patients with Lyme disease and um, and pans and pandas is this connection that when they had had the infection, all of a sudden there’s these big changes in terms of anxiety, depression, mood changes, things that they’ve actually never had experience in before. And particularly a lot of the patients that are coming to the door, especially with Lyme disease, I see even more frequently as women or men that are in their late twenties and thirties and they’re like, you know, I feel like I’m having brain fog. I feel like I have a lot more, I’m having more panic attacks or anxious. I’m just not feeling like myself and I’m not an anxious person or I’m not a depressed person.

Dr. Patterson: And so oftentimes they were coming in, they might have recently been prescribed a psychotropic medication and they’d been on it, but they still feel exactly the same. And then oftentimes when we’re working with them and they get treatment, a lot of those symptoms will actually abate. So it’s interesting to see the connection for not for everybody. Is it always that there might be a whole other piece of it of addressing just the adrenal glands itself? And then also sometimes just an imbalance with their neurotransmitters, which can also be because the infection itself. But that’s been a common piece even though, you know, like I said, about 60 or 70% of my patients with Lyme disease. Of those 67%, I’d say like 80 or 90% are having anxiety and depression depressant like symptoms.

Dr. Cates: So what, so how would someone know then how do they know that maybe they’re a candidate for having testing for Lyme disease? Cause I know it’s a tick borne illness, so somebody, obviously if somebody has had a tick bite then that could be, but Oh, you live on the East coast. I grew up in Virginia. I don’t know how many ticks have fed off of me throughout the years. And so how do you, how do you know, how do you know that that’s something that you want to pursue as far as possibility?

Dr. Patterson: And that’s a good question because unfortunately a lot of the patients that have come to see me and especially, there specifically for Lyme disease. I’ve seen like six to nine doctors, same as autoimmune conditions. Often before that they actually come into the door and lots of times they’re coming because they’ve done all the approaches. I’ve done tons of a battery of blood work and nothing is actually coming back positive. And so they’re coming to me cause they’re trying to find out what else could there be out there that’s not being looked at. And so, um, I think if you, if you are, you know, that person that there has been, um, pretty extensive tests, like autoimmune conditions have been rolled out, let’s say inflammatory markers. There’s no inflammatory markers showing your CBC, you know, all the general blood work is not showing. That’s when you want to look at to see if there’s other infections that can be contributing to that.

Dr. Patterson: And so at that point you might want to look at either a doctor who is, let’s say one literate or has focused on infectious disease. I’m not all, you know, not all are the same in terms of approaches, but I would, I would feel that, um, if you’re still, you know, not getting the results or not feeling better, that’s when you want to look at that. But unfortunately with like Lyme disease for example, like over 50%, the rate’s pretty high in terms of false negatives for testing. So you have to make sure that the testing you get, is with the lab that’s really tailored, you know, in terms of the labs that we work with, they’re very specifically tailored towards things like tick borne illnesses. So the quality of their titers and the specificity is a lot higher than what you would see in some of the traditional lab vendors that people work with. And so I might catch or pick up on things that may not have been checked or, um, or just, you know, just not seeing, because you might not have the bullseye rash. She might not have the rash, you know, just a red rash in general. You might not have all the class, you know, the classic, skin manifestations, but you might have the other things like the unexplained fatigue, you know, the undulating the fevers or the chronic, you know, migratory joint pain. That doesn’t really make any sense. And so, it’s challenging cause I wish some people saw me early on. Oftentimes they’ve, it’s been, you know, six to nine doctors before they’ve come to see me.

Dr. Cates: Yeah. So you mentioned some of those symptoms that are the warning signs for this. And I think that a lot of times people, like you said, they think that there’s, if there’s no typical bullseye rash, um, then, uh, but, but hold on, let’s back up for a second. So for people who don’t know what a bullseye rash, can you describe what that is?

Dr. Patterson: Yes. So it’s basically a circle, a circle, and then the inside, there’s like a, just like a bullseye. Like if you were to actually like a sh, um, Oh, see, I don’t want to say a range, but I’m trying to use a PC word, but, basically, you know, with the circles. And so basically it’s an outside circle and then there’s like a dot in the middle. And so usually what it’ll do is you’ll see the spreading out from the center and it’s like reddish color. Some people will just get the, the red Mark itself and that’s it. Um, some with different infections, let’s say like Bartonella, which is another common tick-borne infection, they get striations that look like stretch marks. And so I’ll see that with teenagers where their parents come in and they say, Oh, they’re getting these like stretch marks in different spots that aren’t traditional to where you would normally get it located. And we might test that. It might be positive for Bartonella. So the different tickborne infections may also present differently in terms of skin manifestations, but many people just do not get that at all.

Dr. Cates: Yeah. So, so if someone gets, has a tick bite and gets one of these rashes, so he’s the bullseye lesion around the, where the tick was was obviously that’s a concern. But like you said, that doesn’t always happen. They don’t always have a skin reaction. Sometimes the body just doesn’t even express that. So then there are these other, other symptoms that show up. Um, what are, what are some of the typical things that you most commonly see with that.

Dr. Patterson: The most common, and it’s interesting cause I was one of these people in the category, you know, I got tested much later. I think I kept hearing it so much and I said, well I think that’s what I had when I was at naturopathic school. And a lot of the, what I see was from me, I was having like really bad fatigue where I could do this, like fall asleep anywhere. Um, I was having the random migratory joint pain. And so for me, which is the case of many of our patients, they were checking for autoimmune for lupus. My mother has lupus, my aunt has lupus. So it made sense to look in that category. Um, and so they checked for all of those pieces and there was basic, it was completely unexplained. And so going back and seeing the blood work, you’re like, okay, little that explained everything.

Dr. Patterson: So for me, I also had anxiety. So I had that excessive sweating, almost like hot flashes where I would get like just, you know, drenched. And they had just thought it was anxiety, which I didn’t feel it was. And it was exactly the same story. I patients say it just came out all of a sudden. Um, but I think in terms of the top three things, I would say fatigue is the biggest thing. Migratory joint pain. Oftentimes in like the knees, patients will say, the knees are a common location. Neck and hands. And then the other pieces, cause sometimes people say like brain fog, neurological symptoms, you can get numbness, tingling. People just say they feel kind of like out of it, like not themselves. Dizziness, those are more of the neurological manifestations. But I even have people that have palpitations S hortness of breath, like air, hunger, all these different symptoms that are just ones that they’ve never had before. And so they may have went to a pulmonologist already, they may have went to rheumatologists and all those things come back negative.

Dr. Cates: Okay. So that’s why so many people have gone to other specialists before then if they’ve already done the test right thing to do is a lot of times those are um, you know, going down that path we’ll, we’ll provide solutions. But um, but realizing that lime is, um, there are a lot of different Oh, pictures then that they show as and, and so, you know, I, I wanted to bring this up because I think a lot of times people don’t think of depression and anxiety related to aligned. So I think that that’s an important thing to get tested for. So when someone comes and to see you and you’re thinking about Lymes, do you do testing for that? You have more specialty labs that you use and so how would you go about treating somebody?

Dr. Patterson: Yep. So I would do the specialty lab test for Lyme and then I do want to roll out the same pieces in terms of autoimmune conditions and all the lab work, like you said, that’s important. So I’m going to look at that and what’s exciting as this age as you know, many case stories where I’ve had a person that um, especially I feel like the most touching are people in like their twenties because that’s when your life is about to kind of expand and take off. So to see them have this kind of just drop in, you know, how they feel about themselves, anxiety, depression, just symptoms that they feel like are unexplained to be able to do treatment with them and see that they are much, yeah, better when do not have to be on medication. That’s just like, you know, hugely impactful. These personally.

Dr. Patterson: But I’m, I would say like lots of times, you know, I’ve had this patients with anxiety that have been, have come, are on psychotropic medications or may have been on a month. And then once we start putting them on a Lyme protocol, you know, one or two months later, their anxiety and a lot of their or depressive symptoms dissipate pretty quickly within two or three months. And so oftentimes they don’t need to necessarily be on that medication. The protocols we use, they’re very specific herbal protocols. We look at ones like modified, Countin protocols. One of the ones that we look at, I’m also dr Zhang’s protocol. Qe look at beyond the amp balance. So it really depends on the patient. I try to size up what is their like sensitivity level in terms of how strong we could have the protocol. Also we want to look, is it more of an immune system issue? I find a lot of our patients with chronic Lyme, it almost is kind of like an autoimmune condition where their body kind of goes through when they’re sick, you know, or when there’s a change in season, like with molds and things like that or allergies, there’s symptoms start peaking up. And so on the back end I oftentimes have to support them in terms of their immune function. And so that’s another piece that’s like hugely important to look at as well. But it’s a typical in this cause like herbal protocol on nutritional supplementation. Also we’re one of the few providers on the East coast that provide what’s called low dose immunotherapy. And, that’s also as well we use for specifically to infections.

Dr. Cates: Yeah. Okay, great. Well, and it’s, it’s great that there are clinics like yours and you said you have a whole team of, of practitioners there to support people too. So it’s really great to have clinics like yours that are available to people that need that additional support. And now you also work with people with mold exposures and can that also be one of the underlying causes of depression and anxiety?
Dr. Patterson: Yeah, so we’ll see with our patients, they might be doing well and then as the season changes, particularly in the fall when it’s damp and then the spring or those changes in weather, all of a sudden they’ll come in and say, Oh my gosh, my symptoms are back. And so with those patients, oftentimes that might be more of the issue in terms of the mold. And lots of times it’s because it causes this like immune mediated reaction where the mold will just, you know, affect the overall immune system. And that’s when it allows those pieces that are kind of like those underlying infections to just kind of run rampant. And so what we need to do is obviously support the immune system again. And then also look at supporting like how do we have them so they’re less affected by mold. Also, lots of times we might initially just have to test like what, where is the exposure from, you know, with our naturopathic medicine or it’s really like to treat them the root cause. So treating them patient is great, but if they’re constantly getting exposed in their house, you know, you also want to have them on protocols specifically for that when a lot of it is exposure within their house. So that might also be a whole other piece in terms of remediation that might need to work on with the patients in terms of supporting that. Yes. As well.

Dr. Cates: Right, right. And, I know we’re covering a lot today. We ha I’ve had other guests on the podcast come on and specifically talk about Lyme disease. I had Dr Darren Ingles come in and talk about Lyme. So that’s another podcast that people can watch, listen to. And then I’ve had other doctors like Dr Joel Krista talk about mold exposure and how to identify that. So other, uh, I know we can’t cover it all today, so, and I know you know who these doctors are and specialize in these areas and know a lot about them. But is there anything else you want to say about mold? Um, you know, in general, how do you know which it is, you know, anything that you could tell our listeners, um, about, you know, how do you, how do you know when to go down this path? I guess it may not necessarily be something that people need to jump to right away, right?

Dr. Patterson: Yes. And then it actually, it’s the same as how do you know the path of looking at mold when someone comes in initially with lyme? I would think, I would say that typically after getting treated for a few months, if there’s not kind of some progression in a positive direction, that’s when you want to look at is there another environmental factor that’s actually aggravating the condition. And that’s what I’ve had often with patients, you know, for treating them for Lyme or a child with pans or pandas or different infection type. For the most part I’d say like 90% will get relieved going down that path. But then you’ll have some that, you know, things are not shifting. And so after a few months I’ll say, okay, there’s something else that’s really the root or core actually, you know, aggravating this condition or how you’re feeling. And so then that’s when I go down that path. So typically I try to see, you know, where in terms of intuitively is it feeling right based on the, like the whole story in terms of all the symptoms that they’re coming up with. And then if there’s not that movement that you’re normally expecting to see, that’s when you want to look at any other kind of environmental factors. So we mentioned mold as one. What I often see for some too, it might also be like a food, you know, food sensitivity. So there might be something, I have some of my patients, I’m with Lyme disease, they’re doing well. And then for some like the diet in terms of we do, um, alkaline diet, we look at autoimmune paleo diet. That’s like the staying power for them. And then some, it doesn’t matter. But for some it’s like, Oh, during the holidays, like everything, you know, kinda goes downhill and why? It’s because their diet changed and there’s seasonal variation. There’s genetic variation actually season to season and your gut microbiomes. So it could be that factor as well. So I think I would say if you’re on a protocol, it’s been a few months and you’re not seeing any kind of shift. That’s when you want to at is there an environment or outside cause that’s actually initiating it.

Dr. Cates: Yeah, and I know it can be overwhelming if you’re listening to this thinking, Oh my gosh, which of these applies to me. That’s why I want to have to, and I have other doctors on because you don’t have to do this alone. There are naturopathic doctors and functional medicine doctors, other who can, that specialize in these areas that can do testing and help you identify what exactly is going on and have protocols to help work through this with you one on one. And there’s a lot of information online. There’s a lot that we can do ourselves as far as healthy lifestyle. And you know, my book Clean Skin from Within. You know, I talk a lot about the foundation about have healthy living, but if you’re, if you’re following a healthy lifestyle and you’re doing all the right things and you’re still struggling, then it’s, it’s great to reach out to doctors like you Jaquel to really do that detective work to find out what exactly is going on. And there might be oftentimes the patients that have been sick for a while, right there lot of layers. So you have like you’re talking about, you have to just line, but then there’s also mold exposure and so there are these different things that we need to work through and so people shouldn’t expect to have to do this alone.

Dr. Patterson: Exactly. And I, and exactly what you said about layers, I do see you’ll see patients and they’ll start getting like much better. You know, it’s like 70% better. And then there’s like that one piece and it might be mold and then we do that and they’re at a hundred percent, you know, because we are, it’s when we learn in terms of retraining, it’s like, it’s like an onion, like where you’re peeling back layers of an onion. So lots of times these things might actually surface. That may have been cause you’re working with that kind of root first maybe dominant issue that someone is coming in with and then as you kind of go back and layers you kind of, you might find more of the root of kind of where some of it stemmed from too. So that’s another interesting piece. And then I agree with you in terms of working with a doctor that’s also trained and knowledgeable. I know for our office we offer like 10 minute consults to go through that cause you want to make sure too that the doctor is also, you know, a right fit. Are they going to look at that whole piece? You also want to be careful, you know, going down that rabbit hole that it’s only lyme or it’s only this or you know, it’s only one, one condition type because it could actually be, you know, it could be that one thing or it could be more than that. And so you want to make sure that you’re just keeping your eyes open to looking at, you know, what are the possibilities and as people, we are multilayered, you know, we’re not necessarily just one thing, so it would be nice if we were, but um, it doesn’t really often work that way. And so oftentimes there’s, you know, two or three factors that at least that minimum that might need to be looked at when you’re receiving your care.

Dr. Cates: Yeah. And you also mentioned PANS and pandas. Can you briefly, I know it all, high guy, we don’t have a lot of time to dive into as I have to have you back on the podcast is something people really want to learn more about the, can you explain what that is?

Dr. Patterson: So it’s an acute neuropsychiatric syndrome that occurs typically for kids. And what will happen is the symptoms are like, I’m OCD, um, anxiety and it’s sudden acute. So it happens kind of overnight. And so for example, I have, um, patients that come into the office, they’re like, you know, I have a 10 year old. All of a sudden they went, actually just one case went into the bathroom and they came out like it was like a different kid. They were scared to take a shower. They were scared to sleep by themselves. They were, you know, they had to do repetitive behaviors. Um, lots of times it’s also associated with ticks. Well they’ll have like neck ticks or shrugs or these kind of different tick like it patterns could even be like words or vocal vocal ticks as well. So, um, but it is sudden and acute. And so lots of times these, these are related to specific infections. So pandas is a subset of pans, which is more connected with strep infection, but there are other infections like Lyme disease. We’ll see a mycoplasma pneumonia, ebstein barr. And so those are other, um, infection types that are also connected with that disease condition as well.

Dr. Cates: Okay, great. That’s, yeah, great brief description on that. And it’s interesting that you cover all of this in your practice. You work with all of these that you work with these, I mentioned ticks, like ticks being, you know, there are two different types of ticks, right? Muscle, Twitch, ticks and, and those are the things. And then there was also the insect ticks. Right? And so, but you’re, you’re, you’re seeing all these people for sure. Tick borne diseases like Lyme and you’re seeing people with mold exposure and you’re saying the pans and pandas. So why do you do all of us? How does it come together?

Dr. Patterson: Well, the interesting thing is they’re all, when we look at infections, right? And something environmentally coming into the system and causing these manifestations of illness. So it might, I feel like that, I think it’s sometimes it’s funny because it’s hard for me to summarize like what do I actually do? But I would say it’s like the external environmental piece and infections coming into the system. And your body mounting this immune response. And what happens is over time, if it’s chronic, it’s like I had mentioned earlier like an autoimmune condition where your body’s continuing to like over, overstimulate its immune response and cause inflammation. And that’s what happens in that, in those specific situations with anxiety and depression, you know, these, these ticks or these infections like we said with pans or pandas, they affect the ability for your neurotransmitters to work properly because it causes what we call an inflammation in the brain. So there’s this overreaction of inflammation which then causes those symptoms that we see of anxiety and depression. So it might seem like it’s not connected, but in many ways it is because it’s those infections that are disrupting that whole normal process that your body would actually undergo in terms of its pathways and kind of disrupt a lot of those pathways exam, for example, with anxiety and depression, the neurotransmitter pathways due to the inflammation.

Dr. Cates: Right. Great. Thank you for explaining that. I mean, I get it, I understand it, but I think from the outside people are going, she does all these different things that, like you said, it’s related to inflammation and the immune system and what that all does throughout the body that we don’t have. Like, you know, it’s, even though we have these different systems of the body, they’re all interconnected and, and they work together. And so it’s really great. And you know, as I’m listening to you, I want to, for those of you in my audience of the people listening, if you are, if you’ve taken the skin quiz and you’re an Emmett skin type, this is particularly important for you because of the relationship of your, the root cause behind your skin issues are probably related to your immune system that what makes the Emmett skin type. So this is particularly important for you if you’re an Emmett skin type to understand this connection between inflammation, the immune system, and overall health. And so it all ties together. So I’m really glad that you, mentioned that and.

Dr. Patterson: I’m going to go in to take the skin types now, right? I’ll definitely be doing that.

Dr. Cates: Ya you’ll get your skin personality type. So thank you so much for coming on today. I really appreciate it.

Dr. Patterson: Yeah, I love this topic. And it’s so true of what you just said about, I think in medicine now in healthcare we see things as all separate. You know, you go to a cardiologist, you go to the pulmonologist, you go to these specific specialties and not really looking at how are they all interconnected. And I feel like that’s part of the conversation I had in terms of the infections and its effect on the whole body. And that’s what I think is so great about naturopathic medicine because that’s exactly what we do. And that’s why I’m always going to support that. You know, our cause in terms of naturopathic medicine for the, exactly that reason because we’re looking at that whole piece. We’re not separating people out into pieces because that’s not how we, our, you know, personality wise and physically, our body really sees all of those things. So there’s that whole picture and is why I’m glad that you elaborate because it’s really different than I think how we’re taught or what’s what we hear now in terms of the current medical system that, that we have.

Dr. Cates: Yeah, I mean, and that’s why I talk about with skin. Skin is just an outer reflection of what’s going on with our overall health. Dermatology should not be totally separate from everything else that we do with our health. It’s just an outer is one of the first signs. Like even with the tick borne illnesses, it can, it’s usually the first sign that you have one of these diseases is that bullseye rash skin is oftentimes that outer reflection of what’s going on inside. So we need to pay attention to also realize that it’s all connected. Right?

Dr. Patterson: Exactly.

Dr. Cates: All right, so Jaquel. Thank you again. Thank you so much. Tell everybody where they can find you online.

Dr. Patterson: So that my medical practice is in Fairfield, Connecticut. So you could go to Fairfieldfamilyhealth.com to get information. As well we do have some other references and great material on that in terms of blogs and different condition types as well. So definitely check out the website. We also are on social media, on Facebook, Facebook and Instagram at Fairfield family health as well.

Dr. Cates: Alright, awesome. Thanks so much Jaquel and thanks for all you do for the profession.

Dr. Patterson: Thank you. Thank you again for having me. Trevor,

Dr. Cates: I hope you enjoyed this interview today with Dr. Jaquel Patterson to learn more about her, you can go to thespadr.com, go to the podcast page with her interview and you’ll find all the information and links about her there. And while you’re there at thespadr.com, check out our new brand new website design and join The Spa Dr community so you don’t miss our upcoming shows and our special offers at thespadr.com. And if you haven’t gotten your customized skin report, found out your skin personality type, you can go to theskinquiz.com. It’s a free online quiz that gives you information about what your skin’s trying to tell you about your health and what you can do about it. Just go to theskinquiz.com you can also join me on social media. The Spa Dr. is on Instagram, Facebook, Pinterest, Twitter, and YouTube, and join the conversation there and I’ll see you next time on The Spa Dr. Podcast.