Reprograming Your Stress Response With Dr. Heidi Hanna

Dr. Cates: Hi there. I’m Dr Trevor Cates. Welcome to The Spa Dr. Podcast. On today’s episode of The Spa Dr. Podcast, we’re discussing how to reprogram your stress response so you can be more effectively adaptable and healthy. There are some people that are more sensitive distress, so you’ll find out from the guest today how to know if you are one of these people and even if you aren’t one of those that are more sensitive. Stress impacts all of us. So my guest is Dr. Heidi Hanna. She is the chief energy officer of Synergy, a company providing brain-based health and performance programs to individuals and organizations. The she is the executive director of the American Institute of Stress and a founding partner of the Academy for Brain Health and performance. She’s also a New York Times bestselling author of several books, including the Sharp Solution, Stressaholic and Recharge. She’s been featured at many global conferences including Fortune magazine, most powerful women in business summit, ESPN leadership summit, and the million dollar roundtable. Her clients have included Google, Starbucks, Microsoft, Morgan Stanley, and WD40 as well as a PGA tour and the national football league. Heidi has also a certified humor professional with the Association for applied and therapeutic humor, although she won’t admit to being funny. She, her newest book is What’s So Funny About Stress. On today’s podcast, Dr. Henna shares signs indicating that you may be more sensitive distress than most people. You might be in that 15% of people that are more sensitive and these signs can include things that show up on your skin and she explains how stress leaves an imprint on your body and your brain. But don’t worry, she also covers how to reverse that damage and build a more, more resilient mindset and a healthier body and mind. So please enjoy this interview.

Dr. Cates: Heidi, welcome to my podcast. It’s great to have you on The Spa Dr. podcast.

Dr. Hanna: Thank you. I am excited to be here. I have to say I’m a fan of your podcast and I’ve watched many of the episodes before as I’ve been doing my research. So you’ve been hanging out with a lot of my friends and I’m excited to be here with you.

Dr. Cates: Yeah. Excellent. Thank you. Thank you. It’s, it’s, it’s so much fun doing a podcast. It’s a lot of fun being on them and interviewing other people. So, um, well let’s go ahead and dive in. We’re talking about stress today and I know we’ve talked about stress on the podcast before, but there’s so many different angles on stress that we can cover. And I know you’ve got some unique things to share with us today, but I think the first thing is we want to talk about is why is stress so important? And I know that a lot of times people like, oh, of course there’s stress. Everybody is stressed. Deal what you know, so what, but stress management is so important. I talk about it in a clean mind section of my book because of the, of the importance it plays in our overall health and our skin. So from your perspective, what do you see? Why is it that people really need to pay attention to stress?

Dr. Hanna: Yeah, I agree. I think stress management has gotten kind of a bad rap and in fact, when I’m brought into companies to work on stress, I always tell them, don’t put it in the title. Just had this conversation with someone yesterday. I said, let’s talk about recharging your brain and your business and your body. Because stress management just sounds like we’re going to sit and talk about our problems and complain like everyone has stress. Who are we to take care of ourselves? And I think especially as women, sometimes we have a tendency to just brush our stuff under the rug and focus on how we can help everybody else. That said, I have to say for me personally, my skin is one of the ways I can tell I’m stressed. I start to get breakouts and in fact even getting ready for this, I was like, oh, it’s been a stressful couple of weeks. I’ve got skin stuff here, I’ve got skin stuff here and there’s no question that that’s what’s going on. I think what I most want people to understand is that stress isn’t a bad thing. So we know we’re going to have stress, but really the goal is learning how to use stress as it’s intended, which is to fuel positive change. So stress is really just energy and information and we can master stress instead of managing it. We can actually use that energy and information in a more positive way. But if we don’t, we’re really pushing down and trapping and embodying this gap between demand and capacity, um, and it can radically change our brain and our body. So I think one of the most helpful things is just to understand that over time chronic stress can rewire the way that our brain and our nervous system function. And there’s actually three primary targets in the brain. One of the things like to to teach, it’s really easy for people to understand and remembers the triune brain. So we know that the brain is really organized in a specific hierarchy for how we process energy and information from the bottom up. So we have what’s called the lizard brain at the base of the brain. We have the monkey brain in the middle, and then we have the more human part at the top. And when we experience stress and it’s acute and we can do something about it, it doesn’t have a negative impact. We get a surge of adrenaline, we actually have better memory, better focus, better attention, better immune functioning, and that’s all good. But if the problem lasts a longer time and really it’s more than like 30 minutes and we’re forced to kind of trap that, the whole dynamic changes. And what changes in the brain is that we actually begin to grow and expand the connections between the monkey mind and that lizard brain. So we’re much more reactive, much more primal. And that can change actually the structure, the chemistry and the function of the brain, which we can see in scans. And then at the same time we start atrophy the areas of the brain, which we would call the human part, that really helped us to problem solve more effectively. So if you’re dealing with stress and it seems like, well everyone has stress, I’m not sleeping well, not eating well and not working out the way I should. I’m not getting a massage. And I know that would all be helpful. I just want people to understand that over time your brain is reprogramming itself and the brain, including the nervous system. And that’s where a lot of the challenges are going to start to show up with mental and emotional health and brain fog. And even that, the body tried to kind of express that and get your attention through things like skin irritation and skin conditions.

Dr. Cates: Right? And those are definitely skin to be a great indicator, like you’re talking about that something’s going on that we need to pay attention to. And it’s an, it’s an easy to see sign. And a lot of times people ignore it though. But are there other signs that people should look for? That stress really is a problem that you need to start paying attention that because how, yeah. How otherwise do we know if it is stress that’s normal, how do we know if it’s too much?

Dr. Hanna: I think a lot of what we call normal is not normal. And so I’d love for people to just be thinking about that when we’re off balance, when we’re out of our sweet spot. So it could be eating too much, eating too little, sleeping too much, sleeping too little. Sometimes exercising too much. People will overtrain when they’re dealing with a lot of anxiety and their body’s breaking down or maybe not moving enough. So I think there’s lifestyle things that people can take a look at. But I also think it’s when we feel like we’re not our best self. So I wake up every morning, or I should say this, I go to bed with the intention that I’m going to wake up every morning being patient, loving and kind like that’s who I want to be. That’s who I believe I am at the core of my being. But as soon as I start thinking I don’t have enough time to get it all done, that’s not how I show up. I get irritable and aggressive and I communicate this with my husband. I’m like, okay, I’m just, it’s not you. I’m just feeling kind of agitated right now. That’s not the way that we’re designed to walk through life. Like we should be able to choose the emotional experience that we want to have and how we want to show up in the time that we have. And I think most of the time we’re being hijacked so we can look at our relationships with people. We can look at our frustration, things like road rage or you know, sitting at work and just dreading, you know, talking to our boss or whatever’s going on where we don’t feel like we’re in flow and we’re living a life that that brings us joy. And I know that may seem like a big ask when you look around and see, well, most people are stressed out and you know, the majority of people are dealing with depression and anxiety and all sorts of things. And so we call those normal, but they’re really not. They’re normal cause they’re like the norm, but they’re not what we’re supposed to be doing. And I don’t think that that’s the way that the brain and the body are really hardwired. It’s just that we’ve been kind of reprogramming it over time by not taking care of ourselves.

Dr. Cates: Right. I think most people listening or watching this podcast, mom more than normal, I think. I think we want optimal, we want vibrant health. We want vibrant, glowing skin. We want those things. We want more than, you know, just okay. Yeah. There’s a lot more to life than okay. And certainly makes aging a lot more enjoyable too as we get older instead of these excuses of like, oh well, you know, it’s just part of getting older. You have less energy. You just don’t have the same kind of drive. You forget things, you know, it’s not settling for that, I think is important. I think stress plays a big role in those types of symptoms. Right. Especially as we get older if he take care of ourselves.

Dr. Hanna: That’s right. And I and I think a big thing piece of it is the story we tell ourselves about stress. I know it’s gonna sound like a stretch, but I always tell people really stressing is a blessing if you realize that it’s trying to get your attention to make an adjustment. The problem is we’ve gotten so used to thinking that that’s the way life is, that we don’t make these minor adjustments that can actually have a really major impact. And I think, I mean, I certainly, I’m married to someone who should not have the energy that he has at an older age and people are always shocked to hear how old he is. I mean, he’s just such a great example and he does a lot of the things from a mindset perspective. He’s very positive. He uses a lot of humor. He’s very mission driven. So I look at him, I, I lovingly call him my longevity project. I look at him and then I think about myself growing up with an anxiety condition. I had panic attacks all the time. Like just some of the things that have gotten me to the point that I don’t even have the energy, the glowing skin that I want to have. But I also know I can make the course corrections. And I know I’ve seen amazing, beautiful older women especially that just radiate from the inside out and there’s something beyond that’s really causing that glow. And I think that is that vibrancy, as you mentioned, it’s joy. And I think there’s part of us we have to get more comfortable with saying that that’s a good thing and it’s okay and we don’t have to feel bad that the rest of the world isn’t in their sweet spot. But what we can do is show up with that energy. Because the other thing I think people should is stress is highly contagious. So the research has shown that teachers who have high cortisol levels have students that have higher cortisol levels. We can feel when someone walks in the room and they’re stressed. And on the flip side, we can feel when we’re near someone who has that calm confidence and that joy in their life. And we want more of that. So taking care of ourselves shouldn’t be selfish. It’s something that really contributes to everyone who’s around us from an energy perspective.

Dr. Cates: Right. And I definitely want to talk more about mindset, but before we go into that, let’s talk a bit more about the brain and the changes that occur. And, and also I think, I think it’s important for you to know is it reversible? The changes that occur?

Dr. Hanna: So one of the fascinating things with the brain is that when you really get down to kind of a cellular level, the cells themselves, like if we actually destroy brain cells, we don’t bring those back. But we can actually create neurogenesis, which is the development of new brain cells. And more importantly, we can strengthen the connection between the neurons that we have. So a lot of the research now is looking at glial cells and how cells communicate with each other. So when I talk about like on the negative side the human part of the brain, the prefrontal cortex actually atrophies. We will lose brain cells and we will decrease the connection between the prefrontal cortex and the hippocampus, which is actually what helps us to remember and, and problem solve effectively. So we’re losing our ability to navigate stress better. And at the same time, the connections between the hippocampus, our memory with the Amygdala and the fear center are strengthening. So when we feel anxious, it’s normal that we feel that way. The brain’s really trying to protect us. It’s those patterns or those networks that can radically change. And we’ve seen this even with people who’ve had this and brain damage, you know, they’ve lost function in certain parts of their brain and yet they can course correct and work around those. So for me, part of what makes it so personal in addition to growing up with an anxiety condition is I’ve had three grandparents with Alzheimer’s disease. And so it’s really, I was looking at the research in neuroscience more around that and cognitive decline before I recognized how powerful this was for mental and emotional health. Because studies have shown that people have the plaques and tangles of Alzheimer’s and never show a single symptom because they have the capacity to work around those roadblocks or speed bumps or however you want to think about it. So it’s really exciting. News it’s a good time to be thinking about brain health and performance. And I think about it as like brain fitness, you know, how are you training not only the structure, the chemistry, but also the function. Can your brain actually take you where you want to go? The way we think about physical fitness and our body taking us where we want to go.

Dr. Cates: Right. Okay, great. And so let’s talk about some of these tools in stress management. And I think, you know, one of the things that you talk about is with mindset is having a more resilient mindset. And I think I, I think that that’s an important thing, because I think we need some resiliency because we are bombarded by so many different factors that can play a role in our health and, and also our mindset.

Dr. Hanna: Yeah. Yeah, for sure. So, kind of going back to the brain fitness idea, I think about resilience as being flexibility. So cognitive and emotional flexibility. Can you deal with things when they don’t go well? So resilience, I look at that as our ability to prepare for, adjust to and adapt from. So like we’re going to have stress, things are going to go wrong. Can we proactively train ourselves so that we’ve got better capacity when those things happen? And can we reactively have some tools that will help us in the moment. So if we go back to the way that the brain is organized, we know that we actually received sensory information before we start to put thoughts together. So we worked from the bottom up. And the reason that’s important is we’re bombarding our system with these non-conscious cues. That process within about a fifth of a second to our brain, kind of from an energetic standpoint before we start having our thoughts. And I think a lot of mindset training is like, okay, just think different thoughts while you can’t, like your brain can’t do that if you’re hijacked in a state of sensing danger or perceived threat. So dealing with anxiety and then dealing with depression afterwards, I would talk with my friends who are positive psychology researchers and say like, that’s all great, but if my body’s hijacked, like I can’t, I can’t even lift myself to think and use positive affirmations, they’re not going to stick. So I really recommend people do what I call brain recharge process or brain recharge practice, and you work from the bottom up, which means you do breathing and then feeling and then focusing. It’s what I call BFF. It’s easy to remember you breathe in a pattern of about six breaths per minute, which is breathing into about five breathing out to about five and getting into a rhythmic state that feels comfortable. So not forcing, deep breathing, really kind of focusing, especially on the exhale because it’s the exhale that that gets us into that relaxation response. So doing a little bit of breath work and then you can shift from there to a positive emotion, thinking about someone or something that you feel grateful for and actually not just thinking about it, but trying to feel in your body what it feels like to be grateful in. The more you practice that these are, you can do it. Like I can shift right now into an emotion of gratitude without thinking of anything. Cause I know what it feels like because I’ve trained myself over time. And then the focus part is really now starting to work on mindset. So what do I want to be focusing on that’s going to allow me to stay in this ideal state? So usually I’m encouraged people to come up with a focus phrase, which could be a word or a series of words. It can be a color, it could be a symbol, but something that you go back to that allows you to kind of anchor in that. And I’ll use an example that I just knocked off my desk a minute ago, but like I have this little stress monkey that I love and I squeeze him and his heart pops out and I always have these with me when I’m speaking. If I’m doing an interview, I usually have them in my hand. This non-conscious cue becomes an anchor for me to do the breathing, to feel gratitude. And for me, one of the things I focus on is humor, so like humor and play also help us with creativity. Help us with that flexibility. But as much as you can make it really tangible for you, I think it’s something that really starts to become part of your toolkit, part of your routine. I do the same with aroma therapy. I create my own blends that lift and ground me at the same time. I always have them with me. Songs can do the same thing. So these are all techniques that really focus on sensory cues first, then emotional experience, and then mindset shifts that we can really make part of our routine without a lot of extra work.

Dr. Cates: Right. Great. So you mentioned a way like noticing the way that it feels to me in that state. Can you, I mean I think, you know, I think, I know you know and I think the kind of know, but do you have any tips for people and how to notice that, that, that you are in that place, does that, I think you can use your heart rate and that’s one thing you could do. Heart rate variability testing and things like that. Right? Do you ever use tools like that to help you?

Dr. Hanna: I do. I’m sure huge fan of heart math. So I use inner balance every day to kind of track my heart rate variability. And it is nice to get the green light that says you’re, you’re there just as reinforcement is especially to the logical part of our brain that wants to know. But what I would also say as like if you’re watching this right now and, and we can do the same thing, is if you just close your eyes for a moment and just think about someone or something you feel grateful for and focus on the area around your heart and just kind of connect with the sensation of that and not judge yourself. If your mind starts to wander, but just come back, like if it’s a person, imagine they’re next to you. Imagine just focusing on the space around your and what that feels like. I think. And you can open your eyes.

Dr. Cates: Yeah, I was just going to leave everybody in la La land.

Dr. Hanna: We can do that longer. But I think that for most people it’s a little different. And so I like to really invite people to just practice and not judge yourself. It doesn’t have to take a long period of time. I can say that for me, I usually feel a little warmer if I’m cool or a little cooler if I’m warm. It’s like your body and your nervous system start to recalibrate themselves. I feel a little bit of, kind of tingling, just like a light, comfortable tingling. But the main thing I noticed is I just start to smile. And even if it’s not on the outside, there’s an inner smile that happens. And in fact, that’s one of the greatest ways I just gave myself goosebumps. Inner smiling is one of the greatest ways to lift and rebalance your nervous system and no one even has to know you’re doing it. But if you just imagine a smile, you start to experience these beautiful neurochemical changes in your brain and body. Um, and if you smile on the outside than other people get a benefit from it too. So that’s not a bad thing.

Dr. Cates: Right, right. Absolutely. Um, when I do that, I think a lot of times I think of my, my kids, um, my youngest, when they’re sleeping like that sweetness and innocence and it actually, I’ve used that as a tool to help me sleep, to like, imagining how peaceful they look when they sleep and that just, I can feel just this relaxation. And, um, and then now that I have a puppy, I feel like puppies, my golden retriever puppy. they are so soft and so sweet. And that’s another one that like instantly can shift things for me if I just close my eyes and I, you know, pictureeither one of those. This was a lot.

Dr. Hanna: And those are helpful for everyone. You know, I encourage people to come up with your own recharge tool kit. What are the go tos for you? I have five things I do every single day to balance my brain movement. Meditation Mirth, which is another word, first humor. It’s the emotional experience of finding something funny. Music and sound therapy. And then massage. I do physical, like I’ll go into a bath or a hot tub with jets to physically get massage. And then I also use electric therapy, which is like a form of brain massage and it’s just a very low frequency current that helps to rebalance the nervous system. So I’ve kind of fine, fine tuned over time, what I call Heidi’s high five. It’s like every day. These are the things I need to do and I have a routine and I know if I do those things, then I’m the boss of my brain. My brain’s not being hijacked and it never fails. Something’s going to come up during the day where I start to get triggered and then I can anchor back by going to the aroma therapy or the stress monkey or getting, you know, outside time in nature. But I think really like starting your day with some sort of recharge routine and then ending your day with a recharge routine before sleep, which is going to help us to sleep more effectively is just critical because then we can shift more quickly during the day. But without those bookends are anchors. It’s really hard to do.

Dr. Cates: Can you go ever the m’s again, there was music, movement mirth?

Dr. Hanna: Yeah, movement, meditation, mirth and those are three like can’t live without. And then I also use music or sound I like my neural beat. Um, I actually incorporate a lot of these at the same time in my morning and evening practice and then massage. So I physically will go get massage every week. Someday I’m going to do it every single day and have someone who lives in my home that’s ready for like a chair massage at anytime because especially if you are stressed sensitive or if you grew up, you know, 15 to 20% of people have a genetic predisposition for stress sensitivity. And I happen to be one of those. So if you are one of those, you embody stress more than most people, you can actually see changes in a brain scan that are different from people who don’t have that sensitivity. So if you’ve been carrying that around, especially you know, for decades, there’s a lot physically that needs to be released and so physical massage can be a great way to do that. And for me it was rewriting the story that says like, I don’t want to tell anyone I get a massage that sounds so selfish or like indulgent. But the reality is I do it so that I can be kind. I do it so that I can speak on big stages and write books and try to share this information with people because that’s really stressful and overwhelming to me. So ultimately it came down to like, this isn’t an option anymore. This is what I have to do to take care of myself. And I would love, especially for women to start rewriting the script about when we take care of ourselves, we really can help others more effectively. I feel like we talk about that, but we don’t practice the strategies that really help us to do it as much as we could.

Dr. Cates: Right. And we do know that there are physiologic changes that occur with something like massage, especially if there’s touch, for example, the oxytocin released that helps us feel more connected and more satisfied in our environment. And um, you know, I think, I think you’re right. I think a lot of times we feel like that’s a luxury. I’m surprised how many people haven’t gotten a massage. I run into people all the time. I’m never gotten a massage. I’m like, have you ever had anybody, like rub your shoulders? And they’re like ya I have, but I’ve never gone in to get a massage. But uh, I think it’s, I think it’s such a great therapeutic tool part, it’s the touch, the relaxation. There are a lot of different components to massage that make it and you’re even talking about not even necessarily human touch, like going into like a Jacuzzi and you get the jets on your back or something like that.

Dr. Hanna: Those are also back rollers. I’ve got something somewhere that has, you know, like wooden ball nubs on it and I can just kind of roll my own back out, even a bath or Jacuzzi Tub, just getting that. I think that the getting them muscle tension to release because we do start to kind of holds everything tightly. I think also as women in particular, we’ve kind of been taught to not take up too much space and suck everything in and stand tall and that’s great. But like we’re walking around holding onto a lot of that tension. But you’re right. I mean you cannot under value, overvalue, whatever the right word is a physical touch. And I know for a long time I was, I didn’t get married til I was 42 and I would kind of joke about this and it was like, well at least when I’m getting a massage, like someone’s physically taking care of my body. It was really important for me to have that physical connection. And I think it’s one of those things we, you know, we just kind of like the stress thing. We brushed it under the rug and say, who am I to take care of myself? So many people are struggling out there and I think one of the best ways we can contribute to people feeling better is for us to show up with that loving kindness, intention and energy and, and also role model this. So I have started speaking out about my massage more to groups and I love that. Now they come back and they’ll say, you know what? I’m doing that to Heidi’s doing it. I’m doing it. It’s like, great, now I’ve got even more accountability to make sure I’m walking the talk.

Dr. Cates: Yeah, absolutely. So tell us more about this. This 15% of people are more stressed. Sensitive, Huh? How does somebody know if they’re in this 15%?

Dr. Hanna: So most people know. It’s really interesting. If I even bring it up, there’s some amazing research by Dr Elaine Aron and she first came up with this term, the highly sensitive person. So if anyone’s wondering about this, I would really recommend, you can go to hsperson.com and see her quizzes and things there. But this was quite a while ago. I want to see like the 80s, nineties ish, which doesn’t sound that long ago to me, but I know too many of you will. Um, and now there’s so much more that we know that the nervous system has what we call vantage plasticity. So this 15 to 20% of the population has a specific genetic predisposition for a more sensitive nervous system. And that’s shown in in brain scans, you can actually see that these people with this particular trait process emotion more deeply into the brain stem and even into the body. So it’s not just negative emotion, I should say that it’s all emotion. So higher highs, lower lows probably shows up in a lot of people as being bipolar or manic depressive. And I think with a lot of those people it’s a mislabel because we don’t understand sensitivity in that. So if you’re a sensitive child and really important … Parents, if you have one of these, which you most likely do, hang in there with me, I’m going to give you some tips. If you are a sensitive child and you enjoy things like you have more joy, more curiosity, there’s usually a connection with nature, spirituality, animals, those types of things. You also tend to absorb stress and tension in the family. So if you grew up in a stressful home life, it doesn’t have to be traumatic, but I don’t know many people that don’t have tension and their family. You can interpret that and start to embody that. And the nervous system changes. So sensitive kids who are nourished and especially kind of taught that they’re sensitive and that’s not a bad thing, and they’re taught how to set healthy boundaries actually excel in so many ways. It’s the sensitive kids that grow up in stressful situations, and especially if they’re taught that their sensitivity is bad, which unfortunately happened to me, not because my parents weren’t amazing, but because they didn’t want me to suffer. So it was kind of like, you know, we need to fix this. She’s too sensitive. She’s too emotional went to all these doctors. No one could figure out what was wrong. And I actually ended up fainting. I have a condition called Vasovagal Syndrome where I faint when I get over anxious that I believe we could trace back to the sensitivity trait. And I’m doing research on now. So, so for parents, a lot of times I’ll mention this and like, oh my gosh, I’m messing up my child. My child is that they’re a little anxious, maybe a little irritable sometimes, but usually very gifted, very creative, very loving. Very passionate. They just seem to have these high highs and low lows. There is a book Dr Aaron wrote about the highly sensitive child that has great tips. The most important thing is that we appreciate and nurture what makes us different and I think sensitivity can be a real blessing as long as we know how to set these healthy boundaries. So quick questions, people can do a quiz to find out if they’re stressed, sensitive. I also put together at stresssensitive.com a little free kind of online course that people can take to see some lectures, take quizzes, and then I just update that as we’re getting new research.

Dr. Cates: Okay, great. All right, well any other tips that before we end, do you want any other tips that help people with managing stress? I mean that we can just start today.

Dr. Hanna: Yeah, I think the last thing I would say, cause I’ve touched on it but I didn’t get into it a lot, is the value of healthy humor. So healthy humor is not about laughing at our problems and it’s never about laughing at ourselves, but being able to find what’s funny in life or look at the irony of it. So a great example, my two biggest fears or public speaking in flying, and I do that for a living now. So that’s funny. So instead of like, oh my gosh, why am I doing this to myself? I have my monkey with me on stage. A lot of times I’ll say something’s gonna go wrong. Cause I mean like, technology’s gonna fail. I’m a stress expert. So if you just kind of expect it, not wanting things to go wrong, but like if we can play with our pain a little more, a lot of times comedy is just tragedy plus time. If you can intentionally look for things that are funny and your day, it will help with your resilience. And for parents, I think this is really a tool that’s very helpful. A lot of times we’ll talk to our kids about gratitude and they like that. But you know, it’s kind of like, oh, here we go with the gratitude thing again. If you asked her kids to find things funny and even report back to you at the end of the day, what’s the funniest thing that happened to you? You’re actually helping their brain to look for things that are more playful and enjoyable and light about life and you’re actually training a really powerful mindset skill for kids and it’s something that you can do and benefit from as well.

Dr. Cates: Ya I love that. That’s fantastic. That’s kind of the mark, but I love it. Yeah. And I love finding the humor in things and um, that’s fantastic. Well, Heidi, it tell everybody where they can learn more about you and, and continue to learn from you.

Dr. Hanna: Thank you. Yeah. The best place is my website, which is Heidi hanna.com. It’s pretty easy and we’re updating it all the time. I’m actually just launching, in fact, in the next couple of months a stress 2020 initiative where we’re working with companies to build a more resilient workplace and a lot of the things you hear me talking about, we’re actually now working with some big brands to take into the workplace and then also out to the general public. So really excited about that. So anyone that’s feeling like, Ooh, I want to get involved with this, you can find out more information about how you can do that at my website. So thank you so much for having me. Love your podcast. I continue to watch and figure out how I can make my skin glow more and show the joy that’s happening on the inside.

Dr. Cates: Yeah, absolutely. Well thanks again Heidi for coming on and we’ll make sure that we have that link to your website up below the podcast interview.

Dr. Cates: I hope you enjoyed this interview today with Dr Heidi Hanna and got some tips on changing, shifting your mindset, some stress management practices that fit into your life that are easy to follow and ways to really know if this is working for you. So to learn more about her approach and about her book and her website, you can go to thespadr.com, go to the podcast page with her interview and you’ll find all the information and links there. And while you’re there, I invite you to join the spa doctor community so you don’t miss any of our upcoming shows and get some valuable information from The Spa Dr. And if you haven’t already taken the skin quiz, you can find out what information you’re skin is trying to tell you about your health and what you can do about it. Just go to theskinquiz.com also, I invite you to join me on social media, on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Pinterest, and youtube. And join the conversation there and I’ll see you next time on The Spa Dr. Podcast.