The Microbiome Solution with Naveen Jain

Trevor:             Hi there. I’m Dr Trevor cates. Welcome to the spa doctor podcast. Today we’re talking about how understanding the microbiome can change the world’s healthcare. My guest is Naveen Jain, who is an entrepreneur driven to solve the world’s biggest challenges through innovation. He is a founder of several successful companies including moon express, biome Blu dot, talent wise, intelius infospace. Biome is focused on disrupting health care with the goal of making illness elective by identifying microbial biomarkers that are predictive of chronic disease and to just a microbial imbalance through personalized nutrition. Nevine is also trustee of the board of the x prize foundation, and he recently launched a million dollar women safety x prize to empower women around the world. On today’s podcast, Nevine shares how we can come together to solve the world’s problems, including healthcare. He shares about the exciting research on the microbiome and the potential it has for preventing and reversing many chronic diseases, and he talks about what his company is working on to continue to address the healthcare crisis. Nevine is such an inspirational speaker, so I think you’ll enjoy this interview. Your vein is so great to have you on my podcast.

Naveen:           It’s an honor and a pleasure. I’ve been looking forward to it.

Trevor:             Yeah. Great. So I know that you have this mission to get people together to solve the world’s problems. Right? And the way we actually connected was because of your microbiome test, but then I’ve learned that you’re doing so much more. Uh, so what got you inspired to do this?

Naveen:           Well, first of all, and this is the first time in the human history that individuals in a small group of people can do things that could only be done by nation states and it used to require that humanity to essentially pooling our resources and give it to this entity called government and hoping and praying that someone there might do something about it and we all have learned, especially in our current administration, they’re not generally the things happen the way we want them to happen, but such is life. Right? But that’s what the democratic system in the bulge. But that doesn’t matter because we as entrepreneurs, you know, the presidents come and go in the niche, the niche and his phd. But if you look at the innovation, innovation never stops, you know, innovation is not in that state or a blue state. It’s really isn’t national global things.

Naveen:           It would continue to walk and as you mentioned that now the technology is at a point where everyone has access to the same set of technology seem separate research papers that you could be sitting in an African, have access to some information that you have sitting at Stanford and that is really what’s changing everything that means now you and I and a small group of passionate people are able to do things that were unheard of. So for example, if you look at the space exploration, it used to be not signed the superpowers in the government. And if you look at today, it is done by Elon and Richard and Jeff and you know, people who are going out and saying this is something we can do. And innovation is accelerating. In the last 50, 60 years since we had the first man landing on the moon, no one ever thought we could build a reusable rocket.

Naveen:           We obviously had the shuttle but never eddie usable rocket. And the point is now that innovation is accelerating the pace and the same thing is starting to happen in the healthcare. Our healthcare system is not that it’s broken, it is just become obsolete. It was designed for the purpose of taking care of people who are dying from infection at an acute needs. And our system does that extremely well. But today in our healthcare system, most people are suffering from chronic diseases. And as we all know, the chronic diseases don’t happen overnight. They happen over time. I mean it’s not like we go home and say, honey, last night I was out with boys and I think it might’ve caught obesity.

Naveen:           It’s not whether you look at the depression or anxiety or you look at the Alzheimer, Parkinson’s and you look at auto immune diseases. It’s not something you wake up one day and you catch. This happens because you have a chronic low grade inflammation. And this is really where the fundamental shift is coming from. In the last 10 years. It has become completely clear that almost all of the chronic diseases, and I think you know as your audience will appreciate whether it is a skin disease, whether it’s an acne, Eczema or dry skin or any type of skin diseases they look like they show up on the skin, but they really are inflammation that’s internal and so when you know my mother who is a beauty from inside out, she really meant it and if in fact if you go back and start to think about the things that have been in our vocabulary and someone will say, Hey, do a gut check.

Naveen:           Listen to your gut. What is it in that gut test they’re asking you to do? And you know, if you go back even 2,400 years ago, hippocrates said, all disease begins in the gut. What did he know? And then he said something very profound. You know, one man’s food is another man’s poison. That means there is no such thing as you know, or some healthy food that needs a food that’s good for trevor. Maybe bad for Nevine and the food is good for me. May Not be good for me in three to four months because as your microbiome inside the gut, I’m going to come back and describe what that is, but that is the key is that our body is an ecosystem and I’m going to come back in a second. Describe but just taking oral concept that you know, bs is skin decisions.

Naveen:           Whether it is aging. I mean there’s no way that it’s written that you know, humans must age and when they age they must get wrinkles. They must get all these chronic diseases that are somehow people are appearing. That what happens is over time we continue to neglect and continue to build up on these toxins in our cells are constantly being essentially bombarded with the free radicals. And so it’s really happened because as we’re aging, we are eating poorly. We’re in a rush during the time when we need to be healthy. We’re all trying to pursue our Korea and running and trying to grab a hot dog wall between the meetings and eventually your gut micro biome starts to get that dysbiosis and you start to see the thing that you never thought you would ever have you. You start to get brain fog, you just start to get tired.

Naveen:           You start to not get good sleep, and these are all symptoms of exactly the same thing, which is a low grade chronic inflammation. So that’s a long answer to your short question about you know, what we can do as humanity and what drives me. What drives me is what if it is possible to create a world where chronic illness is absolutely a matter of choice. What if illness was purely optional and what if that was possible today because now we have technology at our disposal to be able to look at a molecular level, what is going on and to be able to apply the artificial intelligence to be able to make sense of all the data that human brain can have a process and that technology is not going, not just going to revolutionize healthcare. I think is going to completely implode and disrupt our current healthcare system and if I may say so, and if you don’t mind my indulging in the second year is that I find there is no other industry traveler as you are a prime.

Naveen:           I think an example of it you took on this large companies, whether you call them cosmetic companies or pharmaceutical companies, they want to keep you sick. The pharmaceutical companies have become parasite on humanity. To them, a chronic disease is actually a subscription business. The only. They never care about what’s causing them to simply want to suppress the symptom so you have to take their drugs for the rest of your life. Now imagine the only person who doesn’t want to stay sick is the person who is sick, right? And you know even the best drugs that suppress a symptom have efficacy rate of 20 to 25 percent. Now imagine what that really means in layman’s terms. That means 75 percent to 80 percent of the people are not only going to be not help, they’re going to be harmed. There’s no industry where you and I can sell a product telling our customer they did.

Naveen:           You do, percent of you who are going to be harmed by it, but you should buy it. Anybody could do that. I mean that is the only industry you get with it are the only me and are taking advantage of humanity that humanity has to come together to kill this parasite. We have to say, enough is enough. We’re not going to allow us to be with demise anymore. We’re going to empower ourselves with information and we want to go out and solve the problem and that’s why I personally admire you. Travel for what you’re doing. You took on a project that is not easy. These are the billion dollar companies who would rather have you feel because they have. They don’t want you to succeed and that’s the reason what drives you and what drives me is to say, you know what? We’re going to side on the side of our customer, our people, our friends and our family and our loved ones who are suffering from it and we’re not going to let them suffer anymore. And that’s what drives me. And that’s what drives your truck.

Trevor:             Absolutely. It’s so true. And it is a very empowering idea that we have that control, that we can make those decisions ourself and that we have control. And I don’t mean just you and I mean we collectively have control over our destiny of our health and that we don’t have to rely upon some doctor in a white coat that’s been sitting there all day. They’re willing to spend seven minutes talking to you that we can actually do take, take charge of our health. And, and so I’m kinda curious what, why the microbiome, what you see when you created, um, volume, what led you to find the microbiome and feel like this is the future?

Naveen:           Okay. So I’m going to step back for a second that I’m going to come on back here. So as you know, my other company is Moon Express, which is the only company in the universe that has permission to leave earth orbit and land on the moon. And that is actually, it’s going to have a first mission to the moon next year. And the only reason I mentioned that is as we were getting, as we were getting closer to launching this mission, I started thinking about the ones you’ve done that Moonshot, what do you do for an encore, you do another moon shot, and this time it was going to be a symbolic moonshot. And I start thinking about that. There are two big problems that you know we as humanity must, must solve. One is education and the second one is healthcare. And I started looking at both the problems and it turns out the booth were very similar problems and in a sense that in both cases the people believe the system is not working for them.

Naveen:           It is broken and it dumps out the neither one of them is actually broken. Our education system was designed to teach US skills and the industrial era. That was all we needed. We needed 10 million accountants and we needed 5 million late machine operators and meaning $20,000. These people and our education system, wonderful job of teaching them the skills and they could use those skills for the rest of their lives in the world. Live today, which is the word of exponential technologies that miss in that world. Any skill that you learn becomes obsolete by the time you graduate. So think about it for a second. By the time our children graduate, what they learn is no longer valid because the world has moved on in that world. You have to rethink about what education is. It needs to be learning to learn. It’s about learning to solve problems.

Naveen:           You can no longer be unit disciplinary. It has to be multidisciplinary because problems don’t tend to be unidimensional that it’d be multidimensional. Right? So my point is that is where the education system needed to be fixed. And then I looked at the, looked at the healthcare, exactly the same thing. It was designed for the times when people need it to be taken care of infectious diseases. And here we are sitting with chronic diseases. It healthcare system that was designed for episodic sickness is dealing with a chronic sickness and no wonder the things are not working. Now, as I started looking at the things and I, you know, I’m just a information junkie. I went probably must have read 10,000 research papers that came out in the last 10 years and it became very clear to me whether you read nature and the cell and any of the peer reviewed journals that every single chronic disease.

Naveen:           I read Parkinson’s, it starts in the gut 15 years before you see the first symptom and people are not doing the fecal transplants for autism and it turns out the anxiety and depression tends to start with the gut as a low grade inflammation and you start to think about obesity and diabetes and autoimmune diseases and even the heart disease or cancer in the last six months alone, there are papers published by the Mayo Clinic about the breast cancer being caused by the microbiome. They took I think 1600 women with breast cancer tissue and they found was I, you know, similar microbiome that was causing that breast cancer. They did the same thing for pancreatic cancer. The same thing on the liver cancer and what they’re learning is not only our microbiome is responsible for many of these chronic diseases. What’s even more interesting is the weather. The cure for these things work or does not work also depends on your microbiome, so they were research publishing there, whether chemotherapy works or it will actually kill you, depends on your gut microbiome and similarly immunotherapy, whether it works or does not work because at the end of the day, despite how proud we are of who we are as humans, we are basically, there are more more microbial cells in our human body that are more foreign cells in our body than human cells and that everyone knows, but what they don’t know is what makes us, is really our gene expression.

Naveen:           Our DNA does not make us who we are. Our genes are not our destiny. And I’ll give you an example of why I believe that. So first of all, we all share almost 99 percent same DNA. Uni look very different, but 99 percent of our DNA is identical. In fact, I and a three, she had almost 80 percent the same DNA. Not that is not interesting. What’s interesting is if you look at us as humans, every part of our body is identical. The same DNA, same Dni is. That’s not here is also not taught our skin, our lungs, everything, so how is it the same genes can make here and took and why is it we don’t get the tooth growing up on our head and heel growing in our mouth is because it controls the genetic expression of what genes are expressed and what genes are not expressed, and that’s why the same DNA can produce every part of her body.

Naveen:           Now, what’s very interesting is that human DNA only produces about 20,000 genes and the microbiome, these organisms, we have a collection of these organisms, whether they are bacteria, viruses, fungus, yeast, mold, or even the bacteriophages, which are the viruses that attack bacteria. All these combined is what we call microbiome. They produce somewhere between 2 million to 20 million genes to think for a second. That means we are less than one percent human when it comes to our gene expression. So why are they important? So if you think about it, that everything that’s happening in our body is controlled by the gene expression. And that gene expression is primarily microbial. And there is a, you know, some, most people still have this abstract concept of these critters in their gut and they just like, Hey, I don’t want them, I want to kill them. All right? And the point is nature has created us as a symbiotic relationship because we already complex all the nutrients that our body needs.

Naveen:           Our Body cannot digest the food we eat. It has to be digested by our microbiome and they produced the nutrients that our body needs. So if we feed them the wrong thing, they produced the wrong thing, and many of these wrong things can either be inflammatory. So if you’re reading this stuff like eating lots of protein and you’re feeding these things called protein for mentors, you suddenly start to see a lot of ammonia and sulfides being released and that may show up as the Zima and dry skin or acne in your gut, or you may be actually eating stuff that’s producing lipopolysaccharides Lps, which causes inflammation. Again, that shows up as diabetes or skin procedures to all these things are simply the symptom inflammation thing of inflammation really is pulling a string and wherever the weakest link is, it breaks there and some people that weakest link is the heart of our other parts of the body and some people assist skin and all these things start to happen over time. Now, very interesting is as I tried to explain this counter microbiome traveler, most people just still have a very hard time. So I came up with this tongue and cheek his story, uh, what, how humans were created. And if you, me, and I’m going to tell you this story because once you hear it, you can never hear it again.

Naveen:           So here’s how it all happened. So as we all know, trevor, that we were all, you know, on this planet, planet, spacecraft that we call planet earth, the micro organisms have been around for three and half, 4 billion years. The humans only evolved in the last couple of million years. We’re very new species, the human species. So how did we come to be? So here’s how I think happened. One day, all the bacteria in wireless, in the east and the fungus and mold, they all got together and said, we’re sick and tired of living in the smallest place we want to take over the world. And they all looked at each other. One of them raised their hand and say, I have an idea. What’s your idea? What if we can clear this bipedal thing and what the brilliance of us could live inside it? All we have to do is keep this thing healthy and keep feeding it what we want.

Naveen:           Keep feeding it so that it stays healthy. We can make it clear if anything we want and it’s going to go everywhere looking for the food all over the world is going to poop everywhere and it’s going to spread this around and we’re going to take over the world. And they created humans. Now, interesting thing happened. Once a human’s got cleared it, they start to wonder, just like today, you and I wonder about, hey, artificial intelligence, what if some day it became smarter than humans? What will happen to us? Humans? And these organisms are not dumb. They stop, they reassemble and says, master, master, we have a problem. What’s the problem? Some monster. We created this monster be called humans. Aren’t you worried? Someday they may become smarter than us. What are they going to do about that? Master said, don’t worry. We got a whole plan in place.

Naveen:           What is that master? While I’m going to tell you the secret. Then inside the human cell, this thing they called Mitochondria, what they don’t realize is this is one of our older brother is right there inside there, so that provides them all the energy and we talked to it all the time and anytime that humans go out of control, he shut the energy pipe and they’re done. Master. That’s brilliant. But you’re not thinking right now. They started to develop this thing called brain. What are we going to do about that? Master says, that was the first thing we thought about it. Remember, we live in the gut. We put a direct connection to the brain. They call that a vegas nerve. And imagine that Vegas nerve, they can’t. They’re going to name it after Las Vegas thinking, what happens in the gut is going to stay in the gut. They were. What happened was, now I’m going to tell you another secret here. Remember what makes them feel good to serotonin thing. We don’t let them produce much of that. Ninety percent of that we produce ourselves. In fact, we control their emotions, their behavior, their decision making. We have a direct control over the Amygdala, the prefrontal Cortex, like a good leader. We make them think they are the ones who are making the decision. We sit here simply pulling all the strings and they are popping. Sit back a little bit.

Trevor:             Yeah, so that’s who we love that. That’s really funny. Yeah, so we are controlled by these microorganisms. Yeah.

Naveen:           Now, interesting thing is it’s not just a control is that symbiotic relationship that we were created for. That means if we can provide, if we know what organisms are, they are this new ecosystem, these no such thing as one good ecosystem that we all need. So think of our gut and like a Amazonian forest, forest forest. Every step you did is it completely different ecosystem, yet every ecosystem is lush and green, so you and I can have completely different gut and both of us could be very healthy. That means there is no one right gut that we try to make. It is really about diversity and all different organisms working together and it’s not the good bacteria or the bad bacteria. It is all of them coming together, living together in harmony. That means when we eat food, there’s no such thing that he, all of us should be eating healthy and that means eating spinach and avocado and old and avoiding the carbs, and that had been the general myth and that general mit is why we are in a situation we are every few years.

Naveen:           You and I both know there’s a new fad diet. Remember Atkins died. Most people who are listening good probably don’t even remember the Atkins Diet. It used to be no carb diet, a lot of fat, and it turned out the poor atkins died of heart disease. That did not go very well for the brand. Then they came the Paleo Diet and the Ketogenic Diet and the, you know, all these fad diets come and what really happens is you died that’s good for one person is not for other. And secondly even a Di does good for you actually becomes bad for you every three or four months and that’s why the things that work for you short term and then suddenly they stop working and you start going the reverse. So think of it like a seesaw. When you get imbalanced, you start to eat certain foods, you get to balance and you don’t stop and now the imbalance the other way.

Naveen:           So you have to constantly balance in tune and that is really what you need to understand. The only way you can do that is to really do a microbiome test and not just any microbiome desk. Because what really happened is the reason you know this, she had been around for 10 years, so you will say, we just said, if people know about microbiome, I’m heard about microbiome. Many people probably were listening to it. I’ve done the microbiome does, is it completely useless? And the answer is they probably died because 99 percent of all the company that do microbiome test, they absolutely scamming the customers. And what they do is they use very ancient technology that’s really, really cheap. So whether you look at the companies that people may have spent their money on ubiome or buy a home or you know, the American gut project, they are basically do nothing.

Naveen:           What they do is 16 as sequencing that can never see any bacteria, virus, east fungus, mold, and even the bacteria they seed at a genus level. That means there are some of the only seven or eight style you have a high for me. Cues versus backdoor oddities. That doesn’t tell you anything. What really need you need to know is what are they actually producing? Because we need to know are they producing short chain fatty acid that our body needs, like butyrate, how much they’re producing, which are anti inflammatory, how much of aesthetic as the lactic acid they’re producing, how much of the LPS, which is toxic is they’re producing, and then you start to look at it and saying how he just finished going to be consumed by our gut microbiome, so for example, for me is financial toxic and here’s why is punished as we all know, or Kale has lot of these thing called oxalates, oxalic acid, and if you don’t have the gut microbiomes called oxygen factor, then you eat.

Naveen:           The spinach is going to actually not be that digested anymore. It’s going to call it inflammation. Same type of thing. People believe this polyphenol foods like the pomegranate juice and the blueberries, they got to be good for everyone and the answer is no because they really don’t have antioxidative in their own. What they have, like pomegranate juice has something called ellagic acid. Allergic acid in itself is not antioxidative. When it goes to your gut, the Gut microbiome converts that allergic asset into something called utility in a Ula, and once you get the utilization aid, that is what’s absorbed in the body and that become antioxidative. So my point is it is not something you can say on eating healthy. You have to know what’s healthy for you. And so travel. I’m not a scientist or a doctor. I went to Los Alamos national lab and we found this technology.

Naveen:           This was designed for the biodefense work. So imagine the problem they were trying to solve was the same thing. If a bad actor or to get hold of something chemical or biological, how would we. How would they know what’s making people sick? So the develop this technology that’s able to look at your blood and urine are your pool and able to find out exactly what is going on inside your body and what’s making it sick and what’s causing inflammation. And if I say, look, if we know what’s causing them, why can’t we just reverse it and make people nonsick reverse the chronic diseases? And so we got the exclusive license and I started this company and basically put together a team travel that has never been put together. Right? So head of the IBM Watson is an ai person. Dr Massey aid, um, you may know her.

Naveen:           She’s a phd. She’s mad, she teaches functional medicine. She was working for human longevity for Anti Agent Company, for Craig venter. I took her, I stole her from there and brought him, brought her whole team, Allie and needles, needles, clipboard. They all came in to solve this problem. The team that was working at Los Alamos to solve this problem. I took the whole team and hire them to solve this problem for us, to have the humanity move forward with a simple moonshot. What if you and I can create a world together? We’re interested option. And the only way we can do that traveler is if millions of us can come together. We now have tens of thousands of customers and we see unbelievable feedback. As an engineer, I never thought I would wake up in the morning and read the email from someone saying thank you for changing my life or an email from her husband and saying, you gave me my wife back.

Naveen:           She was so sick and I lost her and she’s back now. Right, so people are calling us and said they were depressed or anxious. People who had acne and Eczema. It just disappearing. Interesting thing is we don’t focus on any of those things. We simply focus on balancing your gut and reducing the inflammation. Two of the women went on Dr Oz show one last 71 past one last 49 pounds. We don’t focus on weight loss, that we’re just a byproduct of reducing the inflammation and fixing the leaky gut and balancing the gut, the gut microbiome and all these things that are, we call different diseases that are just the symptoms. People are telling us their psoriasis is, you know, much better the autoimmune disease. They’re not taking biologics anymore or they’re taking much less of them than they used to take. The joint pains are not happening and we still learning what is happening there and the good thing is if we can get a couple of million of people to come together, we will have all the data that we need to solve this problem, but you know, you and I can do it alone.

Naveen:           I mean it’s every one of us have to come together and say this problem is worth solving. And my absolute belief, trevor, is that our generation, if we do it right, will be the generation that will be known for solving chronic diseases. And if we cannot come together and continue to fragment, then we’re going to simply passed this problem onto our children and grandchildren and one on one and we’re going to watch them suffer. And none of us want to see our children and grandchildren suffer. So all we, all I can ask is let’s all come together and solve this problem. I’m only other thing I can tell you to is that I came from very, very humble background. We, I grew up in India. I had no food to eat. I had no place to stay. I came to United States with $5 about 35 years ago.

Naveen:           God has been very kind to this. Any which way you can look at measure success. God has given us everything and the only way I can give back to the society is to dedicate my life to solving the problems that matter. So I am here and I’m going to dedicate my life to solving, but I can do it. It only can be done when we all come together, so I’m in it for the long haul. I’m not trying to make money. We have all the money that we could ever want in our life. All we want to do is that solved this problem and dexterities and that when we started this company to do something in technology like this, to adjust to do a sequencing of your rna, which is what we do would cost $5,000 and in fact today the companies will do this cost $5,000.

Naveen:           We are able to provide it for couple of hundred dollars. Travel is because we’re trying to sell them at cost. We just don’t need to make money. We need to get enough people to come together and hoping that in the next one year the cost will come down to so cheap that are philanthropic dollars can just introduce, subsidize it for everyone. And one day when the everyone we have solved this problem and no one has chronic disease, the best thing of my life will be that we shut this company down because it’s no longer needed. And that will be the happiest day of my life.

Trevor:             I love it. I love your entrepreneurial spirit and um, and your passion for this. And it’s so great to hear this. It’s something they. The idea of individualizing medicine and diet and also that a lot of disease comes from the gut is something that nature pathic physicians have been talking about for so many years. And, and so, so it’s great to see more of the technology and the science supporting that and, and the work that you’re doing to help us really understand more about the gut microbiome and what is their, what is normal, what is healthy. And uh, so, and I know that this is, this is something that’s developing, that’s continuing. And so what do you think as far as where, what would the information that we have available now versus what we have coming? How far do we have to go?

Naveen:           Well, you know, again, we feel really, really good because you know, think about we’re looking at for the first time, all the genes that are expressed by these know, not billions to trillions of these organisms, every single thing they’re doing in your gut. We starting to understand that we now understanding that when they released these enzymes and peptides and molecules, they are absorbed in our blood in there changing or gene expression. So in fact, some really, you know, if anyone who interested, I’m more than happy to recommend some of the books that I find really fascinating is that as these peptides are released to change our immune system and the immune system, because when this year pathogen, they want the immune, they work with the immune system to kill the pathogen. And but in sometimes the bacteria, our gut is not balanced and they actually does not control.

Naveen:           That means the creed, the inflammation. But the switch to turn it off is not there, and then that means we now get the chronic inflammation rather than the anti inflammatory things such as butyric acid being produced that actually shuts the system down to say, okay, all good now. Right? And so when you start to get this dysbiosis, which is just gut imbalanced, you start to see the immune system is either hyperactive and when it’s hyperactive, you can get autoimmune diseases. You get inflammation, causes acne and Eczema. We all know that. I mean that’s really weird. You know, heart disease caused by the hardening of the arteries and the inflammation. We all know that inflammation, chronic inflammation is the root cause. So now the next thing we are launching our travel is on the host side and you know it’s hard to call ourselves a host, but we really have your host for this, millions of these organisms.

Naveen:           On the host side, we are going to be adding a, the blood transcriptomics, which is really a couple of drops of blood. And we sequence it to see every genes that are being expressed on the host side, that ms dot mitochondrial gene expression that no one has ever looked at. The number of Mitochondria. We talked about another bacteria inside our human cell, so we look at that bacteria and seeing what is doing because that’s really the energy factory. So as we age, we lose energy. So what’s happening in the mitochondria that’s causing it, because that’s really what causes the wrinkles and what causes the cells not to work as well. Because when the energy factory is not working well to cells to stop dividing and when cells to start dividing, our skin is no longer smooth because that means our stem sort of constantly producing new a new skin cells.

Naveen:           When they stop producing, our skin cells are not being produced, so they all get wrinkles. So all these things are because our system is just not working out. So the blood transcriptomics allowed us to look at the mitochondrial gene expression, all the blood cell gene expression, including all the Cytokines, which are the inflammation. So Aisles Iowan, which is anti inflammatory iron, six iron glove. Eileen, 17, 18, all the Interleukins, crp, tnf Alpha, and then we see all other genes being expressed and then we’re going to be adding as we are going to be adding the skin microbiome, but just to be clear of all the micro organism that are inside our body and on our body. 90 eight percent greater than 98 percent of them live in our gut and about point one percent live on our skin. Point. One percent live in our saliva. One percent are actually in the oral microbiome inside our gum and then they are in other places in our blood, but most of them are in our gut.

Naveen:           But then we’re going to obviously add the skin microbiome. We are going to start looking at the urine to see what, how are what type of minerals, what type of organic acids and amino acids being produced in our gut. And we take all this data and then we say artificial intelligence. Tell us what is going on. This person had joined paying. This person didn’t have joined pinch and he and our 100,000 people that all have acne and here are the people who don’t. What do you see here? What is common? What are they producing when they have this and how do you reverse it? So if, if lipopolysaccharide is really the culprit, how do we reduce it? What foods cause that lipopolysaccharide to go up and then we start to look at what all the chemicals and every food and we see how does our gut microbiome takes this chemical and what is it producing out of it?

Naveen:           So we look at input and we look at the output and say, Aha, this output is no good and this being produced by this input. Let’s stop this food and give this food instead. And that’s basically where we are right now is. And my hope is that, you know, in the next four or five, 10 years this problem will get solved. But only if we can get millions of us to come together. And you know, no one. And the reason is if you are a doctor, you can see 10,000 people that just not an update and if every doctor has thousand people and they become so smart, remember it, Dr. who is the thousand people? They have lots of knowledge. Not Imagine your ai doctor that has 100,000 people, a million people, 10 million people. That doctor has all the information that you need. So imagine when you go to a doctor because they are an expert and that what makes them an expert. 100 people, a thousand people. But here’s the worst part. Their knowledge is still what they learn in the medical college. You talk about continuing education every single day. Travel. You and I both know it. We are information junkie. The more research is being released every day than human mind can lead. Forget about working anywhere, just simply reading the research, a full time job, but because a really good at that, you feed them all the research. They take all the knowledge.

Trevor:             That’s great.

Naveen:           I just want you to know that I am a big admirer of yours because you are one of the few people who actually are doing it for the right reasons because you care and you care a lot about people. I’ve seen you at work. You’re not doing it because is another way of making money. You’re doing it because you want people to get better and that’s why your products are so good because you. You deliver value. You’re not simply saying what will make it easy. You’re not trying to sell them something. You’re delivering what works for people. So I just said thank you for doing what you do because people like you are the people who this world needs. The more of us is what’s going to make this world a better place for all of us in a firefight children’s.

Trevor:             That’s very kind of you and of course all the work that you’re doing is so exciting and important and I can’t wait to see what unfolds in the next four to five years as as we discover it. All right?

Naveen:           Very interesting. Is that, you know, I started company called wild. I don’t know if I’m going to keep a secret. The Indians cannot pronounce the word. We have a company that I started that I cannot pronounce that’s always have to spell it for people to go, but I say why on this it even with w with beat, what is we? Victor said he can put a link down or at least people can find it.

Trevor:             Your website is [inaudible] dot com, right. Is that okay and we’ll have the link up to it. The main. Thank you so much for coming on today and sharing your information. I really appreciate it.

Naveen:           Thanks. Really looking forward to seeing the episode on. Let’s continue working together. Yeah, absolutely.

Trevor:             I hope you enjoyed this interview today with Nubain chain. To learn more about Nevine and what they’re working at at volume. You can go to the SPA Dr. Com. Go to the podcast page with his interview and you’ll find all the information and links there, and while you’re there I invite you to join the spa doctor community. You can also subscribe to the podcast on Itunes so you don’t miss any of our upcoming shows. If you haven’t done so already, I recommend you get your customized skin [email protected]. It’s free. Takes just a few moments and you’ll get your own personalized skin inflammation. What do you know, what your skin’s trying to tell you about your health and what you can do about it? The skin quiz.com. Also, I invite you to join me on social media, on facebook, pinterest, twitter, instagram, Youtube, and join the conversation there and I’ll see you next time on the spa dr. podcasts.