Total Transformation to Fit with Drew Manning

Dr. Cates: Hi, I’m Dr Trevor Cates. Welcome to The Spa Sr. Podcast. Today we’re talking about how to achieve fitness with a total transformation that means not just the physical aspects of fitness but also mentally and emotionally. My guest today is Drew Manning. He is the New York Times best selling author of the book fit to fat to fit and is best known for his fit2fat2fit.com experiment that went viral online and if you’re wondering what that is, it’s exactly what it sounds like. He went from being fit to gaining a bunch of weight and then going to being back to being fit and when he did this he learned so much along the way that he got some big takeaways. He was already fit, but when he changed his diet and he put on a bunch of weight and had to go back to being fit, it gave him a whole different perspective on what it means to actually go from being unhealthy and unfit to becoming fit again.

Dr. Cates: Whole different experience for him and this whole experiment, it went viral online. He’s been featured on TV shows like Dr Oz, good morning America, the view and many more. And it actually his experiment led to him having a hit TV show called fit2fat2fit airing on A&E and Lifetime. And his new book that he had come out recently is Complete Keto that’s now available. And he’s been on the podcast before but I wanted to have him back on. He’s learned, he’s continuing to learn a lot about about sustainable fitness along the way. And so I want him to come back on and share some tips with you. And that’s exactly what we do today in the podcast. I ask him some pretty challenging questions and we kind of dig deep. I’ve known drew for a little while now. He lives here in Utah, says great to have him back on and really dig in cause I know that fitness, that loving that level of fitness that we want to achieve can be challenging. And I know he’s been there and he’s seen it, heard it all. And so who better to have come on the podcast and talk about this? So again, you don’t want it to just be a physical level of fitness. There are different layers to achieving fitness. You want to feel good as you’re becoming fit and staying fit. So please enjoy this interview with Drew Manning.

Dr. Cates: Drew, it’s great to have you back on the spot after podcast. Welcome back.

Drew Manning: Trevor. Thank you for having me on again the second time. Really appreciate you inviting me back on and glad to be here. So thank you.

Dr. Cates: Yeah, absolutely. So for the, for those people who didn’t catch your first interview, can you explain a little bit about what, what got you started on your journey and kind of your path to fit2fat2fit. And I know looking at you, it’s so crazy to hear this story, but when you know your pictures, your before and after pictures are online, people can see them. So it’s real.

Drew Manning: Yeah, it is real. And just to recap it in a nutshell, for those who have no idea what fit2fat2fit, you can go Google it, but it was something I did back in 2011 to gain a better understanding of what it was like to be able to be overweight for the first time in my life. So I was a personal trainer back then and I was always in shape and um, I decided to get fat on purpose to gain a better understanding. And it was crazy. It was humbling. A lot of valuable lessons were learned during that experience. And Luckily I lost the weight. I gained 75 pounds in six months, which is unbelievable cause you look at the pictures, they look like they’re Photoshopped but they’re really not. Um, and I wrote a book about it. The book became a New York Times bestseller and then from there I had two seasons of a TV show called fit to fat to fit where we took other trainers through this process so that they could learn empathy, respect, and a better understanding. And then since then, I’ve just kind of built my brand online and I’ve about four years ago, got into the Keto space, which has become really popular obviously. And I don’t know what to call myself, a Keto coach or you know, whatever you want to call me. I really don’t care about the formalities, but, yeah, I’m big into the Keto space right now and we do a lot of Keto digital content and I have my own supplement line now. So that’s, that’s me in a nutshell summarizing everything from the last episode.

Dr. Cates: Yeah. So fantastic that you’re just continuing strong and you know, I do know that talking to you last time and when I run into you, cause you’re here in Utah, we don’t see each other a lot but … you learned so much from your journey, uh, doing that experience of gaining the weight and losing it so much more than you thought you were going to. There was a lot of surprising Aha moments, right?

Drew Manning: Yeah. And the biggest lesson I would say that I learned was how much of transformation is mental and emotional. So coming from the fitness industry, you know, I used to focus so much on the physical aspects of weight loss, right? Here’s your macros, here’s your calories, here’s your workouts, here’s your supplements, let’s focus on that. And if you’re struggling then I’ll just bombard you with more physical tools, tricks and hacks to help you lose that body weight that you’re trying to lose. And that was my approach cause that’s all I knew. And then when I did fit too much fit, I had these Aha moments of, you know, the emotional connection to food is way more powerful than I ever imagined. And transformation is so much more mental and emotional than people think. I could give someone the best meal plan, the best a workout program, but none of that matters unless that person knows how to overcome their own mental and emotional challenges. And I think that’s what holds most people back here in America isn’t so much a lack of knowledge. We have so much information on our fingertips so we could Google anything and figure it out. It’s not so much a lack of knowledge. It’s, it’s those emotional struggles with eating consistently. You know, eating good food on a consistent basis or a, or exercising regularly. What’s holding people back from that? Usually it’s their mindset. It’s, it can stem from a lot of things. And so that’s what my mission is now, is to help people overcome those mental and emotional challenges so that it becomes a lifestyle change instead of something that they have to suffer through and something that they loathe, you know, going to the gym and dieting. My mission is to help people overcome that so they can make it into a true lifestyle change.

Dr. Cates: Yeah, absolutely. So, so powerful. So what do you think are the biggest things that help people overcome that? What are, what are the things that you have learned that help people with that?
Drew Manning: Yeah, there’s a couple things. First of all, everyone’s situation is individual. It’s very specific to that person’s upbringing, the way they were raised, their perception of themselves, their perception of what health and fitness is. I would say the two of the biggest things are a support system and accountability. So if you’re trying to transform, not just physically but financially, emotionally, spiritually, you have to change up your environment and you have to surround yourself with like-minded people. So you have to have a support group that’s going to give you encouragement and love and belief and letting you know that you’re worth it. But also a kick in the butt every once in a while. So support system. I mean, you look at someone that’s, you know, struggling with alcohol addiction for example, if they try and willpower their way through it, how many people are successful at that? Not a lot of people. So if people are addicted to food, we think sometimes, oh, I just gotta cut out the sugar. Right? We all know that, but why don’t we do it? Why can’t we do it? A lot of it has to do with, you know, having a support system to stay accountable to someone. So that we can report to them and say, okay, I need you to help keep me accountable because I’m going to have times where I’m going to slip up, I’m going to have times where I want to give in and I just want that drug, if you will. And it’s hard to do it by ourselves. And so those are, those are two of the most important things, but also it’s helping people change their perception of what health and fitness needs to look like.

Drew Manning: So I think our perception of health and fitness, sort of the average person’s perception is based off of TV, movies, social media. We see these Instagram models and we think, oh, healthy looks like this. I need to have a six pack, or I need to have a bikini body to be healthy and I don’t look like that, therefore I’m not healthy. And then we beat ourselves up if we don’t look that way. And we think we’re a failure if we tried and failed and we don’t look the way that we perceive it on social media, for example. And I think that’s what people struggle with. Thinking it’s this unattainable goal of reaching this status of being healthy. And they think, well, you know what, I put in 60, 90 days of hard work. I exercise every day. I count on my Macros, I lost a little bit of weight, but I still look like this. Therefore, it’s just not for me. It’s not in the cards. And they go back to their old. I think that’s, that, that perception is what needs to change.

Dr. Cates: Right? And then if we look at too, and that’s fantastic. And I think if we look at healthy weight loss, that you’re not only going to look physically different, but you’ll feel better. And I think for, I think for a lot of people, if they start to feel better, they realize it’s not just about, you know, how you physically look, but actually how you feel. I mean that makes life so much better when you have a healthy weight loss and you’re not just depriving yourself of nutrients, but you’re adding nutrients to the body and you’re getting your body in a healthier state, you’re going to have more mental clarity, you’re going to have more energy, you’re going to be more fun, right?

Drew Manning: Yeah. You play with your kids, you can play with your grandkids, you can get up without feeling pain and aches all day long. You don’t have to take medications. That’s really what healthy should be. And that should, that should be the focus. I think people that tend to be older, right? Don’t get offended, but what I’m saying is they’re wiser and they don’t really, you know, they’ve reached that certain point where they don’t really care about having that six pack look or looking like an Instagram model. They just want to be healthy for their kids, their grandkids. And that’s how it should be. But even still for people that look at it that way, it’s still really hard to obtain because our society and our culture are based around, um, you know, rewarding ourselves or punishing ourselves with food. We eat our emotions. So when we’re sad, we drink wine or we drink alcohol or we, you know, we loathe in than that type of self destructive habits or behaviors. Sometimes with food, sometimes with drugs or whatever substance there is. Or if we’re celebrating life, there’s the holiday, there’s a birthday, there’s your kid’s graduation, and there’s food surrounded by that. And that food is based off of what culture is. So like you go to a football game or baseball game, there’s hot dogs and beer or pizza or wings or whatever, the cultural enormous for that situation. And we don’t want to be the one that’s left out. We don’t want it to be the one eating chicken and Broccoli, you know, at Christmas time when everyone’s having, you know, delicious desserts and you know, treats that our family has made for generations, you know, and so it’s really hard to break that habit. I’m not saying you have to break it completely, it’s just having a better relationship with food and being more aware of what you’re putting in your body. Because I think people will sometimes either go really extreme and go overboard and say, okay, I can’t control myself and other people can have a couple of cookies and be okay and say, okay, I have that self control, I can stop. Right? So each person’s situation is different and you’ve got to find what works best for you and finding what your happy balances. If you’re happy, balance is 15% body fat and you can maintain that happily without feeling deprived, then go for it. But if you’re happy balances is 20%, but you complain about it because it’s too strict, then you, you probably, you know, won’t ever get to 10% body fat. You know, and be happy at that percentage. Does that make sense?

Dr. Cates: Yeah, it does make sense. And I do want to go back to what you were talking about as people use food to kind of, you know, if they’re emotionally unhappy or they’re filling a void or time and then they’re bored. So what are some tips to help people with that? What are some things that people maybe should consider doing instead of eating or eating the wrong foods? Right.

Drew Manning: Yeah. There’s a great book that I love called Willpower Doesn’t Work by Benjamin Hardy. And I recommend anyone that’s struggled with willpower, trying to stay consistent on some type of transformation. Check it out. Because in the book he talks about how humans are really good at adapting to environments. That’s what we’re really good at is adapting to a new environment. You throw us in the cold, we’ll figure out a way to stay warm. You throw us into the heat, we’ll figure out a way to stay. Cool. Right? Um, same thing with our, with our idea of a transformation. You have to find a way to change your environment instead of willpowering your way through it. So that means change. You have the food that’s in your house, for example. It’s changing up the way you go to sleep, maybe you sleep in your gym clothes so that the first thing you do when you wake up is go to the gym. And when you go to reach for a snack and then the middle of the night to pick up the ice cream or the cereal or whatever their vice is, because it’s not conveniently in a place where they could just go and grab it. But if it’s always there, then that environment is set up for you to, at one point in time, you know, a given. So you gotta learn how to change your environment, adapt to that new environment. And that’s how you change your life.

Dr. Cates: Yeah, yeah. Great tips. And you’re a dad. You know what it’s like having kids in the house, cause when it’s just you, it’s a lot easier, right? You can put things in the house that you like, you know, you know, that are healthy for you. But when you’ve got kids, it adds another layer of complexity. And a lot of people listening are thinking, okay, what about my spouse? What about my kids? What about my in-laws, or whoever is in the home. My roommates, even. They don’t eat like I do. So what do I do? Because that stuff’s still going to be in the house for them. So what do you think?

Drew Manning: Yeah, that that adds a whole layer of extra difficulty to the situation. Obviously with kids, I’m a big proponent of feeding my kids what I eat. But giving them options of healthy, of healthy foods. So if they want to snack on something instead of having chips, popcorn, candy, chocolate, a CapriSun, and like all of these delicious like snacks that are available, instead of them having access to that, it’s like, okay, you’re hungry. If you’re really hungry, you’ll eat this food. You’ll eat these fruits, these vegetables, these healthier snacks. And if they are hungry, they’ll eat it. But if they’re just craving something, then obviously they just want those types of snacky foods. So be smart about it. And, and so I’m a big proponent of that when it comes to kids, when it comes to the spouses that are on a different wavelength than you, that’s a whole different conversation. So in those situations, um, you want to love that person, support them, and you can’t be that person that’s constantly saying, hey, you need to lose weight. Come workout with me. Eat, eat this diet that I’m doing. It’s Kinda like trying to convert someone to your religion. People can put up walls or get defensive thinking that you think you know better than them and you’re going to save them by converting them to your religion. Right? It doesn’t always work that way. It has to be their idea. So love them, support them. Be the example and when they’re ready to make the change, be there with open arms and say, let’s do this together. But in the meantime, I think it just needs to be increasing your awareness and your mindfulness. And one of the ways you can do that is by meditating. I’m a big fan of meditation because what that does is it helps you be more mindful in the moment, right? Instead of being reactionary in the moment where we’re bored, we’re stressed and just reaching for something without even thinking about it, sometimes we’re like, oh man, we’re halfway through this bag of chips and we realize what we’re doing, right? We’re sabotaging ourselves. It’s being more mindful in the moment. So that’s what meditation has done for me and a lot of my clients is if you learn to meditate effectively, you can be present in the moment. And instead of reacting, you can thoughtfully respond and say, okay, I’m craving something. There’s chips right here in front of me that are my husband’s chips or my wife’s chips. And I definitely know I shouldn’t eat them and just wait out in your mind. You’re thoughtfully responding. Instead of just, I’m bored, give me the chips and they’re here. Right. So that’s one of the ways that helps me both more from a mental and emotional approach rather than a physical, tactical approach of like, OK, hide the chips, lock them up, throw away the password, or give it to someone else, you know, like, tell her the code to get in to the safe. This is more of a mental, emotional approach to, uh, being just raising your awareness of, okay, what’s happening in this situation? What am I doing?

Dr. Cates: Right. And, and so this is really what we’re talking about here is really a total transformation, not just on a physical level, but also mentally, emotionally. So this has been a big shift for you, right? Or I’m in, or the, I mean, I guess even more so. It seems like you keep going more and more in that direction of that total health.

Drew Manning: Yeah. Well, that’s because, I mean, that’s all what all my experiences has have led up to up until this point. And this is what I talk about in my new book, Complete Keto is I try to take all the lessons I learned on the mental emotional side from fit2fat2fit and over the years of a personal development even and implementing something like meditation into my life. I, that’s why I added all that to my book. Complete Keto, even though it’s a ketogenic approach and it’s a Keto program, 30 day program. And there were lots of recipes and there’s workouts, structured workouts, but then you’ll also notice things like meditation every day, positive affirmations and gratitude lists. So that as you’re working out on, on your outward appearance, you’re also working in on your mindset and your, your mental strength throughout the day by doing things like meditation and a positive affirmation every day. And a gratitude this so that your approach to the day is more from a place of self love versus self hate. If you’re coming from place of self hate, which is what the fitness industry kind of feeds off of, then I feel like it’s just a vicious cycle, a never ending cycle of beating yourself up, hoping you look this way and then you not achieving it. You try again with a different diet, different supplements, different workout and then you use. But if you’re coming from place of self love, it’s like if you’re focused more on the process of I’m going to live a healthy lifestyle, no matter what the results are. So instead of focusing on the results like some people do in the fitness industry, let’s just focus on the process. Having those healthy habits down and let the results take care of themselves over time.

Dr. Cates: Yeah, absolutely. And it does take some consistency and patience. I’ve seen people and I, and I know people know this, but I still see them do it, trying to get fit in a day. And zxq3you know, they go to the gym, you know, they starve themselves before they go and then they work out really hard and then it just, it sets them up for feeling terrible, right?

Drew Manning: Yeah. Yeah. It’s hard. People, it’s hard for people to change. Their perception of, of this is going to be a longterm journey for you. This is not some 30, 60 day thing that you do and then you’re done. You can relax afterwards. It’s something that has to be a part of your, every single day life that you, you live the process no matter what. Right? You, you get up, you eat real food, you work out, you move your body. It doesn’t have to be this suffering in the gym. Like we think it has to be of like, oh, I have to go to one hour of cardio and an hour of weights and I’m sore afterwards. I just want ice cream, but I have to eat the salad. It doesn’t have to be that way. It doesn’t have to be suffering and starvation. It can be actually really fulfilling. If you look at it from a different perspective.

Dr. Cates: So let’s look at that because what is a good way, what do you think about people transitioning? So say somebody is trying to get back in shape and because as you know, once you get to a certain point, it gets a lot easier. A lot of times is that getting started. So basically two questions here is one, how do you get started without overdoing it? But you know, kind of like transitioning in. And then the second question is how long does it take to really start to notice? When did you start to notice changes?

Drew Manning: That’s a good question. Okay. Getting started, that can look different from every single person. So what I would recommend, first of all is obviously set the goal, right? What’s your goal? It doesn’t have to be weight loss. I actually am not a fan of, I’m going to lose 20 pounds in one month. The problem with that is that a lot of that is out of your control, right? You could say, I’m going to lose 20 pounds in one month. That doesn’t equate to fulfillment, right? If you lose 20 pounds in one month, it doesn’t equate to fulfillment. And there’s a lot of things outside of your control in that situation. You could starve yourself or you could eat, you know, a thousand calories of doughnuts and lose weight. But does that mean you’re gonna be healthier and feel better and look better? Probably not. So it’s gotta be deeper than that. Find out what your why is. And it’s gotta be deeper than I want to look good for the summer. It’s gotta be something more meaningful, more fulfilling that’s gonna motivate you on the days you want to stop. And then from there, look into what programs you want to follow. Do you wanna try Keto? Do you wanna try Vegan? Do you want to try Paleo? There’s a lot of options out there. And so pick one that you think might fit your lifestyle best. Same thing with exercise. It doesn’t have to be this suffering. It can be maybe Zumba, maybe it can be, you know, walking outside, running, swimming, biking, dancing, whatever fits your, you know, lifestyle that you enjoy. That’s the way it can look. And then from there, your second question was how quickly you should see results. It depends, right? It totally depends. Cause I know some people that might not see the scaled budget all but their clothes are fitting better. They’re feeling better, they’re off their medications, their blood work is coming back a lot better. So don’t base it off of just any one factor. I recommend looking at a variety of different measureables. So for example, blood work, your body composition, how your clothes are fitting, and then if you want to use the scale you can, but just try not to become obsessed with that number because I see people define themselves their worth based off of that number. If it hits, if it, if it goes down or if it doesn’t go down, their worth is based off of that relationship with gravity, which is really weird. But I mean you shouldn’t notice results within the first few weeks if you’re staying consistent with it. And then from there, the problem is people don’t see it soon enough or quick enough. They want that instant change like you mentioned. And then after two months they’re like, this is so hard. I only saw five pounds come off the scale and I don’t have, I’m not skinny yet, and I tried really hard for two months. It’s just not worth it. Right. If they would have kept it up for a year or two years or three years, imagine how much better they would feel if they just would’ve stayed consistent with it and had more of a longterm mindset in that situation.

Dr. Cates: Yeah, and you know I like to see people see some change in two weeks. That’s why I have a two week program and my feeling is if you’re not seeing, especially after three weeks, if you’re doing something for three weeks, two to three weeks, not seeing any change at all, it might be time to tweak it because yes, there are a lot of different types. You know, everybody’s unique and so you might need a little bit of change or need some support and might mean it might be the workout routine, right? Or it might be the diet. It might be that you just, you need some changes to start at least feeling a difference. You should notice more energy. I mean, I tell people a lot to look at their skin because skin can be a great outer reflection of inner health and skin issues might start clearing up and then, Hey, wait, you’re moving in the right direction. Just give it some more time. Right. Awesome. And so I know you’re a big fan of the Keto Diet. Explain who you think this type of diet is particularly good for.

Drew Manning: That’s a good question. So if you think about it from an evolutionary standpoint, you humans have, you know, uh, we, we have this backup system known as Ketosis for a reason. Um, you know, where you’re basically able to burn stored body fat as a fuel source. And our ancestors weren’t really doing ketosis on purpose. It’s not like they’re like, hey, take away those carbs. I don’t want to eat those carbs. I want to be in ketosis today. They just ate what was available to them. Right? But it’s how we evolved as a species. So, um, it’s a natural metabolic state for our bodies to be in a state of ketosis. Now is it for everybody? I’ll, I’ll say, I’ll be the first one to tell you no, even though I’m a big fan of it, but I think it’s worth at least everyone exploring to see if it’s right for them. Just because you don’t know until you give it a good consistent try for at least 30 days to allow your body time to adapt. So I think it’s worth everyone giving it a try for at least 30 days. And then whether you stay in ketosis or not is up to you. I know people that have stayed in Ketosis for decades and they’re totally healthy, they’re totally fine, but I know people that didn’t feel that great after 30 days. And so they do really well on carbohydrates. And so if you’re one of those people that if you measure your blood glucose levels and you can eat, you know, um, let’s say a banana or some fruit and you don’t see a huge spike in blood sugar, you’re probably very efficient at utilizing carbohydrates as a fuel source. But I know people that if they have a banana, their blood sugar spikes as if they’re type two diabetic, even though they’re super healthy. And Rob Wolf is a good example of this. He’s the author of Wired to Eat and The Paleo Solution and him and his wife are polar opposites where he will have half a banana and his blood sugar will spike to the two hundreds for a couple of hours. And then his wife will have, you know, a bowl of rice. And it was like nothing happened to her blood sugar at all. And so, you know, does she need to be in Ketosis? Probably not. But from what I understand, she cycles in and out, you know, or eats healthy fats. So it’s good to find out what works best for you. There’s no one perfect approach for anyone out there. And also I would say what works for you today might not work for you six months from now. So be open to changing up and try new things. Do some experimenting on your body to find out what’s optimal for you.

Dr. Cates: Yeah, absolutely. And I know in the, a little while ago you talked about support, support groups and, and finding that, that kind of your tribe and your support around you. What are some ways, because you know, everybody, a lot of people are working from home, they’re more isolated because of the digital world. Do you think that that digital connection is enough or do you think people need to build more of a community in person or is there benefit from both?

Drew Manning: Everything I’ve read supports, you know, one-on-one human interaction. More so than digital connection on social media because you know, we’re the most connected the world has ever been. I could see what’s going on in Israel today. If I looked on Twitter or Japan, we’re so connected, but we’re so lonely. And I think the human interaction, the one-on-one human interaction as something that’s missing from our society, and it’s something that it may be, it’s becoming a lost art or you know, people don’t know how to communicate, when it’s not through text or some type of DMing. And so I feel like it’s something that’s really important still. And something I try and do is make time for relationships, whether it’s going out with friends or you know, the guys or spend time with my daughters or family. I try and make time for relationships cause I think it’s vital for our overall physical health, but mental and emotional health as well.

Dr. Cates: Right. And so finding people that have healthy habits too to hang out with. That’s tricky, right?

Drew Manning: Yeah, it can be tricky. You know, and I think at the end of the day is, um, you know, we, we do fall into peer pressure sometimes and if we’re hanging out with people that like Taco bell and McDonald’s, we’re probably going to be hanging out with them and eventually eat that food. Not all the time, but you know, I think it’s good to surround yourself with people that inspire you and motivate you to want to be better. And that means physically as well for physical health and so find like-minded people that maybe are into, you know, biohacking or maybe into Keto if that’s what you’re trying to do. And yeah, I think that that’s really important. That’s great advice.

Dr. Cates: Right? Yeah, no, I appreciate that. And um, yeah, I think that there are some great Facebook groups and things like that to get ideas and to feel like, and to realize you’re not alone, especially if you hear from people their struggles and helps you make, realize you’re not alone. So that was nice. But I also do really love what you’re talking about, finding people to connect with in person as well. And really I think there’s a lot of benefits to both, but yeah, you’re not going to get everything from, it’s like it would be like dating somebody and never touch or interaction with them. Right. There’s, you just can’t get everything you need from an online world. As much as our, our world likes to think that.

Drew Manning: Yeah. More social, less media.

Dr. Cates: Right. Right. So with your Keto book, Do you have, tell us about the book. Do you have recipes in there or what are some of the things that help? Because I know that the Keto Diet can be hard for people to follow. So what are some of the things that you do in your book to help guide people through it?

Drew Manning: Yeah, so first of all, there’s over 75 recipes in the book. All of them are dairy free. I actually did all my, my recipes dairy free cause people think Keto is just butter, bacon and cheese all day long. Right. You know, they think that’s all you eat on the Keto day when reality is so much more than that. And the reason I took out dairy was because people tend to overdo over-consume dairy on Keto. And I think dairy for most people can be, you know, uh, inflammatory. And so I think it’s really important to cut that out. And plus people just eat cheese all day long. And so I said, hey, to feel your best on the Keto Diet and for you know, the, the best results in the short amount of time. Let’s cut out dairy for 30 days. So all the recipes are dairy free. But then also we have a vegan section and a vegetarian section because of so many more plant-based folks that want to receive the benefits of Keto, but they don’t know how to do it. They don’t think it’s possible cause they think it’s just butter, bacon and cheese all day long. And so I give them a detailed 30 day program with the meal plans and the recipes and the workouts and the mindset stuff that we focus on. Meditation and positive affirmations of gratitude. Everything’s in there for you to follow. And then on top of that, you know, it’s the mental emotional hacks and tricks that I teach people to change your mindset, change your perception of your situation, of your circumstances to make this a lifestyle change. Whether you do Keto or not. You’ll see in the book that yes, I’m a big fan of it, but I give you options for after you do my program. If you want to stay in Ketosis, if you want to cycle in carbs back in or if you want to go carbs all the way afterwards, that’s totally fine. I think it’s just giving people options and educating them on, on you can do after, you know, after Keto cause a lot of people think, well I feel great, I saw good results but I want, I don’t want to eat that way for the rest of my life. And so that’s what I did with Complete Keto. And so yeah, there’s a bunch of options for pretty much everyone in there.

Dr. Cates: It sounds like you really listened to people about the big concerns cause you’re addressing the things that I hear a lot of people complain about with the diet. You know, I can’t do it if I’m vegetarian or Vegan if I’m choosing to not eat meat for philosophical reasons, it’s just, you know, it’s out. I can’t do Keto Diet. So that’s great that you have addressed that. And then also people are like, it’s not sustainable. How do I do this long term? Or I can’t, like mentally I can’t get over the blocks that I have around it. So, and then also give the recipes. People want recipes. It’s always good to have more recipes, right?

Drew Manning: Yeah. It’s so true. People love the recipes, especially the recipes in the book turned out amazing and they’re super easy to make. I found that if recipes are too difficult for most people, if they’re too difficult, we’re doing ingredients, it’ll probably never be get made. Even though it looks amazing. The more simple you can make them and the more tastes you can make them, people will keep making them over and over again. Then that’s what’s happened so far with my book Complete Keto.

Dr. Cates: Great, great. Awesome. I love that. And then also the thing about dairy, it is, um, my audience knows that I talk about dairy being one of the big trigger foods for, for acne and some certain other skin issues. So it’s nice that people can have dairy free options and that you have those recipes, recommendations in the book. So a nice, nice job. And of course dairy is not a problem for everybody, but it definitely is one of those big, you know, one of the big trigger foods for people with I find poor skin issues but also other health issues. So I’m glad you did you, have you personally struggled with dairy? Is that something that you’ve noticed for yourself?

Drew Manning: Yeah, for the most part. My whole life growing up I was pretty lactose-intolerant. I knew I was aware of that. And then when I switched over to Keto and had dairy in the form of cheese, it didn’t, it didn’t really affect me from what I noticed. But here’s the thing and here’s why I recommend everyone, you know, doing an experiment to find out if dairy or other foods can cause issues is once you cut it out of your diet for 30 days. [inaudible] and get it out of your system and then re-introduce it back in, see how your body feels at that point in time and you’ll feel it or see how certain foods affect you. So for me, dairy, yeah, I could handle it on Keto for example. Like I didn’t notice any adverse reactions, but when I cut it on my diet and then brought it back in, that’s when I noticed some issues. And so that’s what’s really important for people to do. I think it’s important for everyone to do some experimenting, whether it’s with dairy or grains or soy or whatever it might be cut it out of your diet even though you don’t notice anything right away for a good 30 days. And then reintroduce it. And see how your body reacts when you first introduce it.

Dr. Cates: Yeah, I’m a big fan of that too and talk about that in my book too. So. Awesome. I think that’s fantastic. And Drew, you’re, you’re also trying to help help other people help others. Right. So you’ve got, you’ve got some stuff coming up with some groups and things, so do you want to share anything about that?

Drew Manning: Yeah, yeah. So fit2fat2fit was a really powerful movement for a lot of people. And ever since the TV show aired, I’ve had people ask me, where can I find a trainer like you in my area? I would love to work with someone that’s empathetic, that understands where I’m coming from and has more respect versus the trainers I’ve worked with in the past. Some people haven’t had positive experiences working with certain trainers because they feel judged, they feel misunderstood. So for years I’ve been working on this project, creating a fit2fat2fit certification course for other trainers or coaches to become fit2fat2fit certified, to carry on that brand name of empathy, respect, and understanding. So that any client that hires a fit2fat2fit trainer in their area, knows what they’re giving. Obviously I can’t go train everyone here that’s asked me to come train them. This is an opportunity to impact the masses where I can help other coaches become certified in the things I’ve learned over the years, especially on the mental and emotional side of fitness and transformation to you know, create an army or missionaries, if you will, to spread the word of, of what I’m trying to preach. And so I’m excited about that. So, if you go to fit2fat2fitfranchise.com, you can look into the certification course and when our, when we’re doing these in person trainings where we’ll have people come up to Utah for a weekend and over the course of three days, it’s one-on-one hands on learning experience of, of everything I’ve been through. We’ll put you through that as well. And then we, at the end, we teach you how to monetize it as well. So it’s a great course for trainers or coaches that want to learn how to become a fit2fat2fit trainer.

Dr. Cates: Awesome. Well keep up the great work and tell everybody where they can find your website, social media, your book, where, where can people find more about you?

Drew Manning: Yeah, so Complete Keto is available at Amazon and Barnes and Noble, all the major retailers. And then follow me at fit2fat2fit you guys and I’ll try and keep you entertained.

Dr. Cates: All right, well thanks Drew for joining us and these are everything that you’re doing to educate and inspire and help people.

Drew Manning: Thank you Trevor. Let’s go boating again some time.

Dr. Cates: I hope you enjoyed this interview today with Drew Manning and to learn more about him, you can go to TheSpaDr.Com, go to the podcast page with his interview and you’ll find all the information and links there. And while you’re there, I invite you to join the spa doctor community so you don’t miss any of our upcoming shows. You can also hop over to iTunes and and leave a review there and subscribe there. So that’s another option or both in audio and video, you can find us on iTunes, on Youtube, and TheSpaDr.com and I also invite you to join me on social media. You can find us on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, youtube, Pinterest, and join in the conversation there. And I also encourage you to take the skin quiz. Just go to theskinquiz.com to find out what messages your skin is trying to tell you about your health and what you could do about it that’s theskinquiz.com and I’ll see you next time on The Spa Dr. Podcast.