healthy soda

Can Sodas Be Healthy

Dr. Trevor Cates: Welcome to The Spa Dr. podcast. I’m Dr. Trevor Cates. Can sodas be healthy? Well, we know the best source of hydration is through drinking clean water, but I often get asked Dr. Cates, are there any other healthy beverage options? Well, I could drink water all day long and I love it, but I know a lot of people get bored with just drinking water and they are looking for something else. But the problem is sodas are typically loaded with sugar, which we know can suppress the immune system, speed up the aging process, lead to unhealthy weight gain along with a number of other health problems.

Dr. Trevor Cates: So is there such a thing as a healthy soda? To explore this conversation I invited today’s guest on my podcast. My guest is Ben Goodwin, who is a product developer who has been formulating natural products for over 14 years. And this includes OLIPOP, which is his third entrepreneurial beverage venture.

Dr. Trevor Cates: He is deeply driven by the mission of maximizing human health and consciousness on a big scale and using healthy products as a vehicle for positive change. And when he is not working on products in Northern California, he is in his forest dwelling, which you will see in this interview in the background.

Dr. Trevor Cates: In this interview, we talk about the problems with most sodas and Ben shares, how he came up with an innovative way to avoid the sugar and artificial ingredients commonly found in sodas and instead include healthy ingredients like fiber and still make a tasty drink, which as you can imagine, this is not an easy task.

Dr. Trevor Cates: And I know there are other healthy sodas on the market that you might find, but this one actually is doing some pretty innovative stuff. I wanted to have him on so you could hear that. I also asked him some questions about being a successful business during these stressful times, going through a pretty major pandemic and still having challenges with it, the business impact that this has created, and yet they are still doing really well.

Dr. Trevor Cates: I also asked him some questions to help with those of us that are either entrepreneurs or even if we are working for a company, what we can do to help weather the storm during these times. So please enjoy this interview.

Dr. Trevor Cates: Ben, it is great to have you on The Spa Dr. Podcast. Welcome.

Ben Goodwin: Yeah. Thanks so much for having me.

Dr. Trevor Cates: A lot of times I have wellness experts, doctors, estheticians, those types of people on. I also like to have business owners sometimes that have done something innovative. That is the reason why I want to have you on the podcast to talk about what you have been doing and what you have learned along the way. You have a unique angle on a healthier soda.

Dr. Trevor Cates: We are going to be talking about that. First, most of us think about sodas and all the problems associated with that. So much sugar. Can you talk about that and the other side of soda, the dark side of sodas.

Ben Goodwin: Soda is the most ubiquitous and deleterious beverage that is available. Unfortunately just the ready to drink section is 65 to $70 billion dollar business with nine 90% household penetration. So everyone’s drinking soda according to Lightspeed, which is a data firm, 50% of adults and 60% of kids have a sugary sweetened beverage every day. Most of these are soda. And honestly, aside from the water, I can’t think of anything in particular that is positive about soda.

Ben Goodwin: It is 40 to 60 grams of sugar in liquid format, predominantly coming from high fructose corn syrup or crystalline fructose. Obviously fructose is very inflammatory. The brain doesn’t actually recognize the metabolism of fructose. You are consuming calories, but your brain isn’t even aware that you are consuming calories. They are going in, but you are not being sated.

Ben Goodwin: It converts very quickly into fat. There are a lot of tremendous issues with fructose, especially in an environment with no fiber, it is pretty much the worst format possible. Obviously there are things like artificial colors, artificial flavors, the various acids that they use to stabilize everything.

Ben Goodwin: Then you have diet sodas which have non-nutritive sweeteners, but there has been a lot of data that has come out on those that they actually preferentially feed certain bacteria in your gut that ironically become more efficient at metabolizing calories and turning them into calories for your body.

Ben Goodwin: The downside of that is actually does increase weight gain somewhat meaningfully. This is an ironic kind of twist that diet sodas enable weight gain, which is the opposite reason why most people are consuming them. So, yeah, there’s a trove of really significant issues with soda. Kind of nonstop actually.

Dr. Trevor Cates: Right. Of course we know that the best way for hydration, I always recommend people drink plenty of water. I really enjoy drinking water, but I know a lot of my patients get bored with water, I don’t want to just drink water all the time. I know people are looking for options, other ways to quench their thirst and also just enjoying a beverage.

Dr. Trevor Cates: It is nice that there are some healthier soda types out there, like yours. It is really interesting because it’s not just that it’s lacking it, doesn’t contain the sugar, the high fructose corn syrup, the artificial ingredients, artificial flavor, all of the stuff that you just mentioned, but it also contains the things that are beneficial for us. So it’s not just drinking this empty thing. It’s actually got some fiber, some prebiotic.

Dr. Trevor Cates: Can you explain how you developed this and where did this come from?

Ben Goodwin: Yeah. I mean, it depends on how long you want to go into that story. I was raised on a standard American diet as a kid and grew up actually pretty overweight. And oddly at 14 years old, I realized that that wasn’t going to lead to a good lifestyle. It is kind of a young age to have that realization on your own, but I did.

Ben Goodwin: I got really into nutrition and I have a brain that when I get fascinated by stuff, I get really fascinated. I started digging into nutrition and actually I lost a bunch of weight and I felt healthier and I started exercising and that was all great. I also recognize that there was a relationship between what I was consuming and how I was feeling emotionally and my cognitive functioning, which was pretty interesting.

Ben Goodwin: That sparked off this deep interest. What is the relationship between what we eat and who we are, which is a big question. That is what led me down this path. I have been really interested in the microbiome specifically, and I helped launch a Kombucha Company when I was 20, and then eventually went on to formulate a Water Kefir from sketch in my mid twenties, which was the company we built my partner and I then sold in 2016.

Ben Goodwin: What really fascinated me there was the brain gut access. It is this idea that you produce the majority of your neurotransmitters in your large intestines, they are metabolized in your microbiome, and then it ships up to your brain. You are also producing a majority of your hormones in your large intestines, same thing, it is your microbiome producing all of these really important compounds.

Ben Goodwin: That is what has got me hooked. Then there has basically been a big pivot in science. Anytime that I am looking to formulate a new product or new company, I always reference the science first and try to figure out is there a reason for this product even existing in the first place? Are we providing something that is actually good to the consumer on a large scale?

Ben Goodwin: And lo and behold, there has been a big change around probiotics and how people in the academic community and in the medical community have hoped they would be helping with microbiome function. Unfortunately they have fallen short, the European food authority, you can include safety authority has rejected over 350 probiotic claims in the last five years.

Ben Goodwin: There is a lot of crackdown around probiotic claims. They don’t really feel like there is a lot of evidence. The Wasserman Institute just completed a large meta analysis where the data shows that after antibiotic usage, probiotics, as the means by which to remediate your gut might actually not be effective at all. In fact, they’re finding that using probiotics to try to recover from antibiotics might actually extend the recovery time, not shorten it.

Ben Goodwin: Then there is this big idea that you are consuming probiotics, that they are hopefully grafting to your microbiome. They are sticking around. And most of them just aren’t doing that. 80 to 90% of the probiotic products out on the market, don’t make it to where they need to go in your large intestines. And then the ones that do make it there, oftentimes they are just transitory. They stick around for 24 to 72 hours and they get excreted.

Ben Goodwin: It was a bummer for me, having spent a decade working in fermented foods and probiotics and the science no longer supports my strategy. You have to grow and adapt as the science shifts. There is simultaneously a new trend that has been in microbiome and gastroenterology research over the last five years towards a dietary intervention. There are these groups called Hunter gatherers. They are living these true paleolithic lifestyles, what homosapiens were designed to consume over the last 2 million years of our evolution.

Ben Goodwin: There are stark differences in their diet and our diet. Then there are also stark differences in their microbiome and overall health, which is being tied to their diet and tied to their microbiome health. The biggest factors that I identified looking at the research was really around total fiber consumption, prebiotic consumption, and nutritional diversity.

Ben Goodwin: That ended up becoming the basis for OLIPOP which is saying, we are going to move away from probiotics as a mechanism to try to benefit the microbiome. And we are going to move towards these dietary interventions.

Dr. Trevor Cates: Yes. The microbiome research is so fascinating and I love seeing it all unfold and it is beautiful to see it. We realized that it is much more complicated than the good bugs and the bad bugs. There is so much more to it. And when it comes to probiotics, a lot of companies started making probiotics or probiotic drinks, and they are not all the same. And everybody is so different. What they need is different and testing is so key in my practice.

Dr. Trevor Cates: That is one of the big things I see. With a lot of my patients we have to test to see what their gut microbiome is actually doing and which probiotics we need to supplement with. A lot of what you are saying is, it starts with what we consume and our lifestyle. If we don’t start there, it doesn’t matter what we are doing. Supplements are great, but you have to have a healthy lifestyle to have that foundation. Otherwise, all of those great supplements you are taking, they are just not going to do what they are designed to do.

Dr. Trevor Cates: The high quality ones. I think it’s so important to get fiber. You are talking about these prebiotics that create the right environment for the good bugs, the beneficial bacteria to thrive. And if we are not doing that, then we are missing out. Most of my audience are healthy eaters, so they are going to get a lot of the fiber and the prebiotics in their diet. But most of America does not eat healthy and they are consuming these sodas. So I love the fact that you are just sneaking this in. You are putting in the fiber and the prebiotics. You are getting that into something that they are going to consume anyway.

Ben Goodwin: Well, that is the goal. It sounds a little insidious, but it is designed to be a Trojan horse. The main thing that is disrupting people’s health in a beverage format is these really sugary, carbonated, soft drinks. Fiber is basically the anti sugar. Adequate levels of fiber helps to stabilize blood sugar. It helps to deliver useful nutrients to the large intestines where the microbiome actually needs it. And simple sugars obviously spike your blood sugar levels, which messes with your hormones.

Ben Goodwin: It also delivers the whole payload to your small intestines, which is not where you want to be feeding your bacteria. So the inclusion of fiber is actually the answer and it’s this to high sugar drinks. And to your point, exactly. If you are going to supplement with probiotics, I think testing is a much better way to approach it. If you are going to be bringing those different organisms in, you need to make sure that the underlying food that they need is there.

Ben Goodwin: If you are not getting enough fiber and prebiotics, it is like trying to plant seeds in the desert and hoping to grow a garden. You need the right ecosystem, the right nutrients in place in order for the native microbiome to thrive. And certainly for anything you are bringing into the equation to thrive.

Dr. Trevor Cates: Right. OLIPOP is the name of the beverage, how much fiber is in there? What are the things that help with prebiotics?

Ben Goodwin: Yeah, for sure. There is nine grams of fiber per can. Technically 32% of your daily recommended intake. That is a little misleading in my opinion, because the FDA recommendation is lower than the world health organization recommendation. And it is also dramatically less than 100 hunter gatherers are getting. The average American, according to the CDC, gets five to 10 grams of fiber per day. The average Hunter gatherer gets 100 to 200 grams of fiber per day.

Ben Goodwin: Even if you are saying, Oh, nine grams, that’s a lot, that’s a third of my daily recommended intake. It is still not close to what we are supposed to be getting. That is an important caveat to that number. That is the quantity of fiber. And then we have resistant starches. We have resistant dextrins through cassava and kudzu root, which are both South American and Asian tubers that have been consumed for a long time by indigenous people.

Ben Goodwin: Then we used chicory root and drew some artichoke, which is a really rich source of Inulin which is really great. Then we have some Nopal cactus, which has some really interesting polysaccharides, which are also quite useful. Then we are doing a lot of really great research innovation as well. We have some phenomenal academic partners that we are testing the existing product with.

Ben Goodwin: We also have an innovation pipeline right now where we are actually looking at new novel prebiotics and fibers that are not even on the market yet, so that we can increase that third bucket, which is the nutritional diversity piece. Most Americans get 80% of their food from 20 different food groups. So meat, dairy, corn, soy, potatoes, it is very limited.

Ben Goodwin: National geographic actually followed an Aboriginal tribe of Hunter Gatherers around for a year and cataloged all their food. This particular tribe was getting 1400 nutritional inputs in a given year. The order of magnitude between the differences between the diets are pretty substantial. In our case we have something called OLI smart, which is our functional mix and it has eight different plant based ingredients. Even if you are getting your prebiotics getting your fiber, we want to make sure you are getting it from a varied source that can feed a large consortium of different beneficial bacteria.

Dr. Trevor Cates: Everybody is talking about immune support right now, increasing your ability to be more resilient. Right. A few of the things with sodas are that typically people are drinking sodas that have really high sugar, and we know sugar suppresses the immune system. On the opposite side of that, what you are talking about the prebiotics and supporting the microbiome really helps support the immune system.

Ben Goodwin: Yeah, exactly. We know why people are very concerned about their immune systems right now. It is obviously, it’s an important thing to keep your eye on. And the key aspect of immune health is what is called immunomodulation. I am sure you know all about this. It means that you don’t want your immune system going too high and overreacting, and you don’t want your immune system going too low and under-reacting.

Ben Goodwin: You want your immune system to stay in a healthy middle space. Even people who are having a harder time with COVID, the virus is driving the issue, but it is actually the immune system going into a hyper immune function. That is making the situation worse. One of the great things about having a healthy microbiome is it helps with immunomodulation.

Ben Goodwin: It helps to keep your immune system in a healthy functioning space, so it is reacting correctly to issues that are happening inside of the body, but it is not overreacting or under-reacting. We can go into all the mechanisms, but that is the high level view.

Dr. Trevor Cates: Right. And of course you can’t make any medical claims on your beverage. So there’s none of that. We don’t want to steer people down the wrong road, thinking that this is going to provide some sort of resolution to help their immune system in some magical way. When we are talking about drinks and having something that you want to enjoy and have something refreshing. And especially right now, a lot of people, when we are stressed, we are looking for those comfort items.

Dr. Trevor Cates: Looking for those things that maybe we grew up with, or we just reach in. And sodas are one of those things that people just want to reach for in times of stress, because it is their comfort item. I think it is great that you have an option for people that is not going to be more of an issue, but actually has some nutritional benefit to it. So that’s fantastic.

Ben Goodwin: Thank you. You are totally right. We have seen a lot of that. Obviously we get data coming back from the stores around what is selling and all the soda and all the comfort foods, Oreos are flying off the shelf right now. It is totally right. When people get stressed, they are looking for comfort and that is fine. That is a natural human reaction. It is obviously sad that a lot of the things that give us comfort in this particular case, aren’t particularly good for us.

Ben Goodwin: Again, that is one of the goals here is to not to shame people away from something that maybe they are used to consuming or a flavor profile that really does bring them a lot of joy, but just try to transform that as a vehicle so that it is actually providing you with some benefit instead of being quite toxic for you.

Dr. Trevor Cates: Right. Absolutely. I know we have been talking about sodas and the health aspect around what you have discovered with sodas and your sodas. I want to shift gears a little bit and talk about from a business perspective. Because so many people right now are struggling with their businesses, but you all are doing really well. And you are getting in more stores. More people are drinking OLIPOP. Is there anything that you can share about from a business perspective, things that can help people ride this storm?

Ben Goodwin: Yeah, it is a really challenging time for sure. We are so incredibly fortunate that the traction developed before this, is really taking off in a major way. I am really grateful to the consumers that support us and obviously to my team, for continuing to power through, what is really a stressful time for everybody.

Ben Goodwin: I think that every crisis is an opportunity if you can wrap your psychology around it. I think that is the first step, and honestly, it sounds maybe a bit overly simplistic, but just say, look, this is a crisis for sure. How do I adjust my psychology? Or how do I adjust my approach or how do I rally my team to change the way I’m doing it?

Ben Goodwin: So that I am actually looking at this like how do I provide benefit? I think probably for a lot of your viewers and for you and for what we are doing over here, there is a mission behind what we are doing. I think it is time now where we can almost get a little bit of a hero archetype narrative. That makes sense in terms if you believe in what you’re doing and you believe in the value that it is providing and you believe people need it.

Ben Goodwin: Now is a really great time to tap into that because at the end of the day, if you are a business owner and your psychology is where you need it to be, it’s going to be much harder to get up and see the opportunities everyday. Let’s say this is number one and also transferring the information to your team. Then the second piece is really just making appropriate pivots. So for us, we are largely a brick and mortar retail business and sell products in stores.

Ben Goodwin: We majorly retooled, so we could focus a lot more on our eCommerce division, some of our digital marketing, because that’s obviously a great way to reach people right now where you might not be able to reach them in store like you normally would. Then the final item is targeting the message, and getting the right balance of being aware of the situation and being empathetic and mindful and not being oversold.

Ben Goodwin: Try to provide value because a lot of people are really struggling right now. And at the same time, people want a little relief if you can offer it. I would say that it was about making the necessary business adjustment, making the communication adjustments and using that to reach consumers in an appropriate way for what the situation has in store for us.

Dr. Trevor Cates: Yeah, absolutely. I want to give you an opportunity to just brag a little bit, and I am going to give you permission to do this. Tell everybody when you started Ollipop and how much you have grown.

Ben Goodwin: Yeah. I mean, we have been on a bit of a rocket ship, which I am really, really pleased about. I have been through the ringer now a couple of times, this is my third beverage business. Obviously I have high expectations for myself and the product. But we have really grown beyond what I suspected we would. Which is great, we are up to a team of 16, 17 people right now. We are about to add three to 4,000 new retail outlets this year.

Ben Goodwin: While a lot of brands, unfortunately, are having a bit of a hard time, we have been able to mobilize. I think that is because we are adding a lot of value to the kind of sets that we are going into. A lot of the sets that we are in are digestive health sets, which oftentimes have Kombucha and Apple cider. They are really dominated by this vinegar taste profile, and maybe nutritional strategies that are a little less clinically validated.

Ben Goodwin: I think being able to go in with something that is really delicious, it is really nostalgic, still has low sugar and low calories. It has different digestive benefits, that really worked to our favor. Everything is cranking. Our economy has grown by almost 600% over the last couple of months. Like I said, retailers are coming on board.

Ben Goodwin: The day when you are running a company and you have people working inside of the company, their mindset and the culture you are building is the most important thing. When I look at how our team has responded to what is happening, I almost feel that is more important than the raw business mechanics, because that is the gift that keeps on giving. All those things are all in a good spot. We are going to grow by about seven X this year. That is a good spot. I am really grateful for that.

Dr. Trevor Cates: That is amazing. I wanted you to share that story because it is nice to hear stories of success during these times of challenges for people. I think it is really important. It is an important time for us because we have been given an opportunity to reevaluate where and how we are spending our time and what we are doing in our business lives and our work lives.

Dr. Trevor Cates: Does it bring us joy and do we feel like we are making a difference? Are we excited about it because it makes times like this easier to get through. I think it has more opportunity to have the kind of growth and success like you are having.

Ben Goodwin: Yeah. When I told my team and I communicated this on some Instagram lives that we did. I think when you are going through stressful situations like this, it is a really good time to refocus on what is important to you, What is important to your business. What value are you giving to your customers that they really need, that they can’t live without?

Ben Goodwin: What is important to them and what is important to you. It is time to refocus on what is precious and it’s true. If you have your family intact, if you might be struggling, but there are different options to work through that. I think we get really, this is pretty cliche, to be honest with you, but we do get caught up chasing success.

Ben Goodwin: I guess it is easy for me to say, because we are having success, but you do get caught up chasing a lot of things that are more external and when things get tough, it is actually a really great chance to reflect on your life and what is important and build those community bonds and build those personal relationships that really sustain you and to evaluate things.

Ben Goodwin: There are summers and winters to life, that kind of analogy. The winters are really good for generating communal reflection and self and professional reflection in a way that does make you stronger because we will get through this. Who do you want to look back on and say, this is who I was when we were getting through this and who do you want to be on the side of it? If you can keep those characteristics in mind, you are going to find that this is correct quite a bit when things are really challenging.

Dr. Trevor Cates: I think this is true for people, whether they are an entrepreneur and they have their own business like you and I do, or if you are working for a company, you want to look for companies that have that mindset that want to improve work ethic and excitement and help the environment. Because we know that stress plays a huge role in our health and in the gut and the skin and the immune system, all the things we are talking about. So the work environment that we have is really key for that.

Ben Goodwin: Totally great. Yeah. I am working with the contributors who have major publications right now on a story about having integrity and principles and having a mission adds to your resiliency. Especially during times of stress. I think that people are waking up for the paycheck every day or companies are apt to just pay the check every day. Their morning is less stable when things aren’t intrinsically positive or intrinsically on the up and up.

Ben Goodwin: A lot of times people think that having a mission is just fluff that goes on the side, that helps you sell a brand. Actually it’s not true at all. It actually helps make you a more resilient company and it makes you a more resilient team. Hopefully it is something that people can take out of this as certain companies will hold it together. And some companies unravel. That is not the only factor, obviously I don’t want to be insensitive, but I think it is a major factor in keeping hope alive as we push through this.

Dr. Trevor Cates: Right. I love that you are doing your interview from your outdoors. You have the wind chimes behind you for people who are listening and can’t see the video. You live outside of San Francisco in the woods.

Ben Goodwin: I am a forest dwelling, human being. Historically I do a lot of travel for work and I am always on planes and I am always in different cities. There is a lot of invasive mental clutter in large metropolitan areas that some people really thrive on it and I really don’t. I really need the time to reflect on what is important.

Ben Goodwin: I don’t know, but when you are just out in a bunch of trees, it really changes your perspective on things. If you don’t live in a forest, you can go hiking, you can do a lot of different things to instigate that. It is a bit of an auto meditation to be in this environment. I find that it is really great for keeping me focused on what is important and then sounds accurate for that in the company.

Dr. Trevor Cates:
I think more and more people are going to become aware of that going forward, this need for social distancing and having our space and being in nature and how can we incorporate that? And our day to day lives, including our work environment and all of that.

Dr. Trevor Cates: Ben, it’s been so interesting talking to you and learning more about your business and your sodas and how you develop them. Any feedback from your customers? I am curious, what are your customers saying? I am sure you get some amazing testimonials.

Ben Goodwin:
Yeah. A lot of them do end up talking about health issues they are having. And those are obviously things that I cannot really talk about.

Dr. Trevor Cates: No claims here.

Ben Goodwin: To get some of those communications, those are really heart warming. When you wake up and you see that in your inbox. I would say that our customers really fall into two camps. One camp is, I really love the taste of soda, but the sugar is too high. Sugar is the number one issue that people who consume soda are worried about. It might be consuming soda, but sugar is the thing you are trying to get away from.

Ben Goodwin: All of our flavors are five grams or less of sugar per can. You can drink a whole can and you can say low sugar, plus you get the fiber benefits. I think that is nice as a lot of products are trying to play in the space that low calorie, they also have low taste. The thing that we nailed here is that it is really full flavored. You are not giving anything up.

Ben Goodwin: If you want a Cola, you can have a Cola. You can have something that is actually very full-flavored. So that is one can for consumers. A lot of customers, either themselves, used to be, self-professed soda addicts. And now they are able to move away from that, or they are actively looking to transition, and this is finally the thing that they can drink to help them with that. That is a really great piece of feedback.

Ben Goodwin: Or maybe they stopped drinking soda five years ago, but the parents still drink soda. Now they have been able to actually send their parents something or send their kids something that they can drink that is a replacement. That is really phenomenal when I get that kind of feedback. The other feedback is really people who are looking for something for their microbiome or their digestive health.

Ben Goodwin: Maybe they have even been to a dietician or they have been to a nutritionist and they need to increase their fiber. You need to increase your prebiotics. You need to get more plant based ingredients in your diet. What are you going to take, scoops of fiber powder? There are more enjoyable ways to get those nutrients in, and there are less enjoyable ways. And that is the point for us as well.

Ben Goodwin: What is the point of even being healthy in the first place? It is because you want to enjoy your life. Maybe if you can pursue that through a route that is fun to experience and it makes it less threatening and makes it more shareable, then that is really what we are about.

Ben Goodwin: We get consumers, mostly the feedback comes along those two channels. Those are always like wind in my sails and if you are having a hard day and then somebody sends you a message. All right, we are doing something good. This is positive.

Dr. Trevor Cates: That was fantastic. All right Ben, it’s been great having you on thank you and tell everybody where they can find OLIPOP.

Ben Goodwin: Yeah, it is pretty straight forward. It’s just drinkolipop.com. Buy directly off the website. There is also a store locator. Find us on Instagram @drink olipop. Then we did just formulate a new flavor. It is cherry vanilla. It basically tastes like a cherry pie in a can. I think we sent you some, so you’ll be able to enjoy it soon. That is launching exclusively at Sprouts who we are rolling out with nationwide, actually this month. So you can find it in Sprouts or you can find it online and then we will be in a lot more stores near you soon.

Dr. Trevor Cates: Awesome. All right. Thanks again, Ben, for coming on. I appreciate it.

Ben Goodwin: Trevor it has really been a pleasure.

Dr. Trevor Cates: I hope you enjoyed this interview today. If you’d like to learn more about this beverage and Olipop has actually extended a really generous discount to The Spa Dr. Family. So if you want to get that, you can go to thespadr.com go to the podcast page with Ben’s interview and you’ll find that information there. And I don’t make any commissions or any money on any association with this company. I just thought they had a great story.

Dr. Trevor Cates: I love hearing about successful businesses during these times, and especially ones that are working hard to help with healthier options for you. And if you haven’t taken the skin quiz, I encourage you to go do that at theskinquiz.com. Find out what messages your skin is trying to tell you about your health and what you can do about it. Just go to theskinquiz.com, find out what your skin personality type is, and also invite you to join us on social media. We’re on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, YouTube, Pinterest. You can find The Spa Dr. there and I’ll see you next time on The Spa Dr. Podcast.